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Is Spanish structure logical?

Is Spanish structure logical?

0
votes

Why is it in Spanish that they flip the words around which doesn't make much sense in English? I would really enjoy some answers! Spanish is confusing to me!

11445 views
updated Mar 24, 2011
edited by JoyceM
posted by funkymonkey2011
Please use proper spelling, punctuation and grammar. I fixed your question for you, but next time, please be more careful. There are people here who are trying to learn English, so we have to be a good example to them. - JoyceM, Mar 12, 2011

18 Answers

7
votes

Why should Spanish word order (syntax) make sense in English. They are disparate languages. One did not evolve from the other.

updated Mar 13, 2011
posted by 0074b507
great answer qfreed - 0043ad50, Mar 12, 2011
short and to the point! - pacofinkler, Mar 13, 2011
5
votes

Heck no! ¡Solo decimos lo primero que se nos viene a la cabeza!

updated Mar 13, 2011
posted by Gekkosan
Me too, only I get in trouble :) - Sabor, Mar 13, 2011
4
votes

?Para evitar tales dificultades, me parece que debería dejar de intentar traducir las frases de manera tan literal.

?In order to avoid such problems, it seems to me that you ought to stop trying to translate sentences so literally (i.e. word-for-word).

In any case, as others have already mentioned, the two languages are distinct and as such, one should not expect that the syntactic structures should coincide perfectly.

There are several reasons why English diverges from Spanish in terms of sentence structure. Probably the most striking reason stems from the fact that Spanish is much more heavily inflected than English. Because of its lack of inflection, English relies heavily on word order to help convey meaning. In English, there is generally a strict "Subject-Verb-Object" word order that is adhered to in order to avoid ambiguities.

In Spanish, however, due to such factors as verb inflection (for person and number), the use of the "personal a" to mark animate direct objects, etc., word order is not as important in most cases because changing the word order does not result in the same sort of ambiguities that we see when the word order is changed in English. Said another way, in Spanish it is more common to see the grammatical function of a word marked by a specific suffix rather than by its position in a sentence.

In any case, the bottom line is that each language is its own distinct entity, and neither has rules formulated on the basis of how well they coincide with the rules of a completely different language. Given all of this and because English is your native language, a more accessible and logical question for you to ask might be, "Why is the word order of English so rigid?" If you investigate this question a bit further, it might help you gain a bit of insight into the logic behind how languages are structured. Meanwhile, while you are pondering the differences in structure between languages of varying levels of inflection, just count yourself lucky in the fact that you're not learning Latin (a much more heavily inflected language). wink

updated Mar 13, 2011
edited by Izanoni1
posted by Izanoni1
very eloquent response izanoni - 0043ad50, Mar 12, 2011
wow. I am impressed. Very good. - Ron_Austin, Mar 12, 2011
well stated as usual! - pacofinkler, Mar 12, 2011
4
votes

So, you think that English is very logical? Curious...

Of course, here's an example to demonstrate the logical use of articles:

You go to school.
You go to the office.
You go to a baseball game.

And of course the meanings of prepositions with verbs are practically self-evident in English:

take in
take up
take over
take on
take to

compared to:

stand in
stand up
stand over
stand on
stand to

Hope this helps. smile

updated Mar 13, 2011
posted by lorenzo9
¡Dios mío! How could I ask such a stupid question... Lorenzo thanks for opening my eyes to see the truth... - culé, Mar 12, 2011
You forgot the really easy ones lorenzo - with "get" :) - ian-hill, Mar 12, 2011
I also forgot to mention that most of them have at least two different meanings. . .silly me :red: - lorenzo9, Mar 12, 2011
Truth will set you free 'but in cual idioma. - pacofinkler, Mar 12, 2011
Lorenzo i have spent endless hours attempting to explain these very things to a native spanish speaker, for them it just does not compute - pacofinkler, Mar 13, 2011
4
votes

I wish Lazarus were here to answer this!

--

So, you think that English is very logical? Curious... raspberry

updated Mar 12, 2011
posted by culé
You don't (wish it), culé.:) He'll go berserk! - Deanski, Mar 12, 2011
Berserk or not ,you'll have your answer! - pacofinkler, Mar 12, 2011
Exacto Paco. - culé, Mar 12, 2011
Deanski: I mean it, really. jeje :) - culé, Mar 12, 2011
Logical? by whose logic. - pacofinkler, Mar 12, 2011
3
votes

Have you ever tried learning German, a closely related language to English. In German the verb comes at the end of the sentence. And their street signs?

A hint to get past some syntax problem in dealing with direct and indirect objects in Spanish.Somebody once told me that if you can not follow Spanish speakers when they use the direct or indirect objects what you must do is memorize some indirect and direct phrases. IE: Me dijeron, tu me lo dijiste ect. So I made flash cards. It worked like a charm, not only could I use theses phrases when I want to say something, I could hear them in spoken Spanish with out translation the sentence in my head. You don't have to memorize a lot of phrases, just ones that you would you frequently. Once your brain understands the process it will do the rest, better than the any translation site. The truth be know mistakes still will happen, but at least you will not be so hampered by what seams to you the illogical placement of of objects before the verb.

updated Mar 12, 2011
posted by Hungerford
Great advice! - Gappy, Mar 12, 2011
3
votes

Welcome to SpanishDict.

There are rules for speaking Spanish, just as there are rules for speaking English. One of the first is that the adjective comes before the noun in English and it comes after the noun in Spanish. In English we say black dog in Spanish they say perro negro. They both mean the same thing. You just have to learn the rules and apply them. I am finding that this can take a long time.

The killer part is if you skip over a lesson and don't learn it then you are pretty well up the creek in future lessons because you don't know the rules.

Of course if you don't know what an adjective or a noun is then you have an even harder time. Learning builds upon itself and you have to know and apply it all.

This site has an excellent set of Spanish lessons. I suggest you click on Learn Spanish (above) and go through them, starting on lesson 1.1. If you are already taking a Spanish course this will be a good review.

I have tried and failed to learn Spanish 2 or 3 different times and it is because I always felt overwhelmed and confused so I gave up. This site is providing me with the structure and motivation and helpful friends that will enable me to become proficient the the language.

updated Mar 12, 2011
edited by Ron_Austin
posted by Ron_Austin
Ah, but there are exceptions to ever rule, in both English and Spanish. That is what makes learning another language the most difficult. Since you mentioned adjectives, most times in Spanish they come after the noun they modify, but not always. - debdelafuente, Mar 12, 2011
Yes, there are exceptions, but you have to know the rules before you can know the exceptions to them. - Ron_Austin, Mar 12, 2011
For example why is it "una buena idea" ? I don't know. - ian-hill, Mar 12, 2011
...to every rule... - JoyceM, Mar 12, 2011
well I guess that's where that total immersion and practice, practice practice comes in. - Ron_Austin, Mar 12, 2011
2
votes

Once you have studied the Spanish language awhile, the syntax will be second nature to you. You will know if it sounds right or not. When you are at that point, you are on your way. grin

updated Mar 12, 2011
posted by 0043ad50
2
votes

Every language is different. Spanish and english are from two totally different language family. For example:

  • in english you say 'I am' - you need to use 'I', because without the personal pronoun, you wouldn't be able to know what is it about.

  • in spanish you say 'yo soy', but you can just say 'soy', because there is conjugation, so you don't have to use personal pronouns, because the form indicates the meaning.

Conjugation is only one of many examples that can show you, that every language is different. For example polish (my lang), there is conjugation(verbs), declination (nouns, adjectives,etc.). We don't use many prepositions.

Spanish is more complex languages than english at some points. That's why you need to learn the language's grammar. E.g. a Korean can learn japanese in about a year, because word order and grammar are the same, so he just has to learn the vocab. But spanish and english are different, so you have to learn vocab, grammar, and everything else if you want to be correct and fluent.

updated Mar 12, 2011
posted by Sinedd
2
votes

Why is it in Spanish that they flip the words around which don't make much sense in English?


I have to translate the English sentence into Spanish.

If you translated sentences (ideas) you would have fewer problems. However, your initial question shows that you are trying to translate word-for-word and that rarely works. There is nothing sacred about English word order (in the sense that it's more "logical" / "natural") that's simply the way English does things and, therefor, what you're used to.

updated Mar 12, 2011
posted by samdie
1
vote

English is, of course, a very simple language. For example, consider the first two sentences many school children encounter:

See Spot.
See Spot run.

Once you grasp the grammatical analysis of these two sentences with their readily identifiable subject, verb, object functions, you will find that Spanish is also very simple.

updated Mar 13, 2011
posted by lorenzo9
Buena respuesta - EL_MAG0, Mar 12, 2011
Ha hahahahahah. Yeah it's super simple till you have to "run Spot out of town" - rabbitwho, Mar 12, 2011
See Spot spin tops around posts.:) No probs. - ian-hill, Mar 12, 2011
Run, Spot, run. That was my favorite book when I was very small. - JoyceM, Mar 12, 2011
Corrimos a Spot del pueblo! - pacofinkler, Mar 12, 2011
Not so simple - pacofinkler, Mar 13, 2011
That was my point. They teach it in reading in kindergarten, but they don't teach the grammar until the 8th or 9th grade. - lorenzo9, Mar 13, 2011
agreed lorenzo - pacofinkler, Mar 13, 2011
1
vote

In our opinion it is english that flips the words around! Which by the way, has no sense in spanish!

Think spanish is a challenge?, go here

http://www.personal.psu.edu/adr10/hu1.html#vocab

updated Mar 12, 2011
edited by pacofinkler
posted by pacofinkler
Touché - pacofinkler, Mar 12, 2011
1
vote

A Spanish girl said exactly the same thing to me about English the other day!! wink

updated Mar 12, 2011
posted by lagartijaverde
1
vote

Well, any language is meant to make sense into other language, you have to see the differences between one and another but above all know that most of the times they wont match or make sense.

updated Mar 12, 2011
posted by Dakie
your answer is the best so far! - funkymonkey2011, Mar 11, 2011
it's difficult for me because i have to translate the english sentence into Spanish and then I get confused and get marks taken off my Spanish homework! :D - funkymonkey2011, Mar 11, 2011
0
votes

English is unusual even among the germanic family of languages in a variety of ways. Many things in English don't make sense. Like why is English one of the only languages, even among germanic languages, that doesn't have a plural second person pronoun?

updated Mar 24, 2011
posted by ocbizlaw