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Why are these suggestions to this sentence important?

Why are these suggestions to this sentence important?

2
votes

My original sentence:

¡Sustitución de los marrones del invierno son los colores de la renovación y las flores están floreciendo!

Suggested correction:

Los marrones del invierno se sustituyen por los colores de la renovación.

Does it have something to do with word order?

Or the active voice versus passive voice?

I'm asking so I can study more about whatever it is I need to study more about! smile

1782 views
updated Mar 14, 2011
posted by bandit51jd
Hola bandit. Include the English sentence so that we can break it down for you. - Deanski, Mar 11, 2011
Ooopps sorry about that, the English would help a great deal. My mistake! - bandit51jd, Mar 11, 2011

12 Answers

5
votes

Replacing the brown of winter are the colors of renewal and the flowers are blooming!

The first clause sounds somewhat awkward to me as well, but people use English differently. My take is, active voice:

The colors of renewal are replacing the brown of winter. (present continuous)

passive voice:

The brown of winter is being replaced by the colors of renewal. (present continuous passive)

In your sentence, you are using the present continuous with the present participle preceding and seperated from the auxilliary verb. A simpler example of this would be:

Eating dinner am I.

instead of

I am eating dinner.

The first sounds like something Yoda would say. But hey, he's 900 years old and probably knows a lot more grammar than I do. smile

updated Mar 12, 2011
edited by lorenzo9
posted by lorenzo9
2
votes

¡Sustitución de los marrones del invierno son los colores de la renovación y las flores están floreciendo!

Replacement of the browns of winter are the colors of renewal and the flowers are blooming!

Los marrones del invierno se sustituyen por los colores de la renovación.

The browns of winter are replaced by the colors of renewal...

The second one sounds more natural.

updated Mar 14, 2011
edited by KevinB
posted by KevinB
I rather like "the colors of renewal", just a thought - pacofinkler, Mar 11, 2011
Renewal is much better, thanks. - KevinB, Mar 14, 2011
2
votes

Replacing the brown of winter are the colors of renewal and the flowers are blooming!

Los marrones del invierno se sustituyen por los colores de la renovación.

"Se sustituyen" is passive voice; it agrees with the plurality of the subject (los marrones). Por is the preposition used for exchanges.

More literally, the suggestion translates as: The brown of winter is replaced by the colors of renewal.

Your answer: ¡Sustitución de los marrones del invierno son los colores de la renovación y las flores están floreciendo!

This is how it translates to English, more or less: Replacement/replacing of the brown of winter are the colors of renewal & the flowers are blooming.

P.S.: Apparently a part of your sentence was missed: "...and the flowers are blooming." I'm not comfortable with "las flores están floreciendo", perhaps because flor & floreciendo in the same phrase seem redundant, but I can be wrong.

updated Mar 11, 2011
posted by Deanski
Maybe you can change flores to plantas, & keep floreciendo, to avoid redundancy.:) You can also say "están en flor." - Deanski, Mar 11, 2011
2
votes

It's only a suggestion of course. You're not engraving a monument here, but are learning alternatives.

I liked your descriptive use of floreciendo. Overall your original sentence may be viewed by some readers as too "passive" in construction, making it somewhat less direct.

I can't judge it the way a native speaker might. I wonder sometimes, when a native speaker suggests a clearer way to express something, could they be losing something in the translation? Did they try to capture everything that was in the original expression, or simplify it to conform to commonly used expressions? Did they fail to understand the nuances of the original? (I'm not suggesting Kevin had any such shortcomings, since he's native English, by the way).

It's a great learning experience for all of us. Thanks for posting this.

updated Mar 11, 2011
posted by pesta
2
votes

In case you wonder why this sentence is not correct:

¡La sustitución de los marrones del invierno son los colores de la renovación...

It should be, or:

La sustitución de los marrones del invierno es el color de la renovación

which is grammatically okay, but unfortunatelly it makes no sense

Or:

La sustitución de los marrones del invierno. Son los colores de la renovación.

These are two sentences and again, the first one has no verb.

updated Mar 11, 2011
posted by cogumela
2
votes

Hi, Bandit!

Well, I made that suggestion (I don't know why you say that it's important)

I don't want to change your intention at all, let's take another look. I'll try to be more close to the original:

¡La sustitución de los marrones del invierno por los colores de la renovación...rolleyes

...and the verb? Where is it?

You have to understand... things are said and expressed in a different way in other languages. It's not always possible to give you the closest translation without changing some things.

another good example is here:

... y las flores están floreciendo!

Beautiful sentence in English, but every poet would avoid that repetition in Spanish, because it breaks the sentence. If you want this sounds good, even when you grammar is perfect here, you need to change a bit the words.

updated Mar 11, 2011
edited by cogumela
posted by cogumela
closer instead of more close / want this to sound good / change the words a bit - lorenzo9, Mar 11, 2011
1
vote

Two more things I've learned is that in Spanish it's good to see if we are being redunt. In my sentence flores and floreciendo.

Also, it's just not that easy to have word for word translations from English to Spanish. So it's real important to be flexible and try and see the whole sentence, not just the parts.

Again, my thanks to everybody for helping with suggestions and ideas and different approaches.

updated Mar 11, 2011
posted by bandit51jd
1
vote

This may not be what you wanted to say - and I make no claim that the construction is without some, or perhaps, several errors. But, here's an attempt.

Los marrones del invierno están sustituyendo por los colores de renovación: los colores de la primavera. Las plantas se comienzan crecer con hojas de verde, y florecer con rojas, rosados, amarillos, azules y morados.

updated Mar 11, 2011
posted by Otravez
Otravez, thank you for your suggestions and as far as I can tell, this is a pretty good description for spring! Your use of colors is very descriptive. :) - bandit51jd, Mar 11, 2011
0
votes

So the suggestion "se sustituyen" is closer to "are replaced". Since I just want to keep the color brown, that's "el marrón del invierno". And I just need to change "se sustituyen" to the singular "se sustituye".

El marrón color del invierno se sustituye por los colores de la renovación.

I feel very stupid but at the same time proud. I think I was able to use the suggestion, maintain my own creativity, and I've found the balance?

Thank you all for helping me reach this point!

updated Mar 11, 2011
posted by bandit51jd
El "color marrón" ... the rest is perfect :) - cogumela, Mar 11, 2011
This is actually a very challenging question. You should be proud. Never be ashamed that you asked. :) - Deanski, Mar 11, 2011
0
votes

Oh my, suggestions are coming quicker than I can blink my eye. I'll make a comment to cogmela and then I've got to leave for a while, but I'll look over this post when I get back.

Well, I made that suggestion (I don't know why you say that it's important)

Maybe I could have said "important to me". I just want to learn so that's important in and of itself. (Hope that is understood my English learners) And one way for me to learn is to understand why the suggestion, not just to write it down because so and so said so. Hope this makes sense.

updated Mar 11, 2011
posted by bandit51jd
Of course it does :) - cogumela, Mar 11, 2011
0
votes

KevinB: Wow this is a first because I'm going to disagree with you. Man is this a risk. The newbie finally thinking her opionion is worth sticking up for. lol; I can remember your help with my feeble attempts when I first got started here on the site. Anyway, for me,

Replacing the brown of winter are the colors of renewal and the flowers are blooming!

is very natural. And I wanted to keep brown in the singular because for the most part that is what winter does to color, everything is brown. But with spring comes a renewal, different colors come out or bloom. And of course this is in response to the photo of the day about the colored pencils.

updated Mar 11, 2011
edited by bandit51jd
posted by bandit51jd
I would agree, except that sustitución means replacement, not replacing. You need a verb instead of a noun, I think. - KevinB, Mar 11, 2011
0
votes

Deanski :

Context: Spring time has to be close.

My full sentences:

Replacing the brown of winter are the colors of renewal and the flowers are blooming!

updated Mar 11, 2011
posted by bandit51jd