Economy of language.
As I study spanish I find that a single word or short phrase contains all the information needed to convey a point or thought . Now english and spanish have this "economy' of language but I am thinking spanish has the edge.
That is until I read ( actually I am in the process of reading) "El hombre de los hielos" where all that "economy of language goes straight to the devil".
The purpose of my question is to ask you all to post phrases that are "clumsy" or wordy in one language and "economical" in the other. (english and spanish of course.
For example: the title of the book "El hombre de los hielos" is "the iceman" in english.
8 Answers
English has it all over Spanish when it comes to posessives. Our 's beats the heck out of de la or del whoever. Bob's cat is much more economical than el gato de Bob.
Spanish has it all over English when it comes to economy of verbs...but, of course, that comes with a price as we native English speakers have a devil of a time learning all of the verb forms.
And the subjunctive....let's not even go there. We native English speakers get along just fine never giving it a second thought, and never worried about the first half of the sentence contradicting the second part of the sentence etc. The subjunctive might not have alot to do with economy, but it does have alot to do with sanity.
Here is one area where Spanish shines:
The neuter "lo" ---me gusta mucho!
Llegó lo más rápido posible.
He arrived the fastest way he could.
Lo maravilloso es su talento.
The wonderful thing (about him) is his talent.
How great is that!!
Meh.. In my opinion, all languages have their strengths and weaknesses (of course, I hear you say).
Economy can be so many things. If we're talking about expressiveness and clarity, my view so far is that Spanish has an edge, especially because of the tenses - there are subtle differences between the imperfect and the preterite, for example - and the moods: the subjunctive can tell us something about the speaker's intent, knowledge or opinion that we wouldn't otherwise have.
If it's down to speed of talking, or numbers of letters on a screen, English has an edge, somewhat. I've seen tv shows subtitled in both languages simulataneously, and the English version is often somewhat, but not much, shorter.
If we're talking about the number of syllables we actually have to pronounce, English wins again, since you can swallow a lot of sounds - in Spanish you pronounce everything clearly, which adds to the clarity of the message, but it makes them speak more rapidly, and yada, yada.
Norwegian beats you both here, though - we both swallow words and talk fast :p (just half-kidding).
If it's about not being misunderstood, Spanish IMO has an edge because what I said about tenses and moods, but if it's about the ability to manipulate an audience, English will probably have the edge since you can be more diffuse.
All of this, however, is trumped by the speaker's intent, he (or she) can be as expressive, succint, long-winded or manipulative as he wants, as long as he masters the language in question.
It's time for a story. In Norwegian, we often make new words by combining existing ones, and when I was in the 8th grade, a pupil had used the term "utslipp fra fabrikker", in English, "pollution (literally emittions) from factories". The teacher wanted to correct her, and suggested the word "fabrikkutslipp" ("factory emittions") in class. Totally understandable, by the way. The pupil retorted: "but that could mean that factories are emitted! That's not what I intended to say at all!". To which the teacher responded that, no, that was indeed a valid interpretation. The lesson, I guess, is that more words or letters can make the intent more explicit.
I should conclude this nonsense by saying something wise, but it totally escapes me. I think all (or at least, most?, since I don't know them all) languages are Touring-complete, and it is more up to the speaker's use than anything else.
Very nice thread, paco
There was a thread opened by the green man about words that have no translation to Spanish but have to be explained. Very interesting thread too
Then there are words like "zwitterbewegung" and "bremsstrahlung" that English adopted from German. . .they are probably used in Spanish as well when the need arises.
Want economy of language try Shakespeare?
"What light from yonder window breaks?"
Modern English
"What is that light that is shining through that window over there?"
Paco,
Excelente pregunta. Típicamente, los traductores afirman que el español es 25% más extenso que el inglés. Cuando calculan el número de palabras a cobrar por una traducción, toman las palabras en inglés y le agregan un 25%.
A mí me encanta el carácter suscinto del inglés. Una de las cosas más impresionantes que ayudan a abreviar en inglés es la capacidad de convertir cualquier palabra en verbo. Ejemplos:
To stomach somebody / Soportar a alguien.
To pencil someone in / Agendar una cita.
Las lenguas romances como el francés, español, portugués y el italiano tienen la tendencia a rebuscar mucho las frases y adornarlas con construcciones complejas. El inglés es ideal para la publicidad. Ejemplos:
Raid: It kills 'em dead. Raid: Las mata al instante (o de verdad).
¡Mil gracias por participar!
Additional comment.
The Japanese can probably teach us all something about economy of language, wherein translating a single word, requires a short paragraph in english and a full page in spanish!
