Which sentence is preferable grammatically?

Question

I have composed a sentence for a critique and am unsure as to correct grammar.

The sentence: "Él cree firmemente que ciertas cosas no pueden morir."

or can it be: "Él cree firmemente que ciertas cosas no se mueren."

He firmly believes that certain things cannot (or do not) die.

Is one preferable to the other grammatically, and why?

Muchas gracias.

Answer 1

I think "Él cree firmemente que ciertas cosas no pueden morir" sound much better, "ciertas cosas no se mueren" it ok, but it's not the way we talk.

If you want to use "mueren", you better say "nunca mueren", "ciertas cosas nunca mueren".

Like that James Bond movie, "El mañana nunca muere"

He firmly believes that certain things cannot (or do not) die.

I translate it like:

Él cree firmemente que ciertas cosas no pueden (o no deben) morir.

gracias for your thoughtful comments, Sun! - NancyGrace, Feb 18, 2011

Answer 2

Is there a pronominal nuance to morirse over morir? Something akin to comer and comerse. Se sometimes give the nuance of abruptly, suddenly. Is that the case here?

Can you also say "no se pueden morir"?

The sentence "Él cree firmemente que ciertas cosas no pueden morirse." is grammatically correct. However, the meaning is subtly different.

To me, the expressions: "Él cree firmemente que ciertas cosas no pueden morir." and /or "Él cree firmemente que ciertas cosas no mueren." convey a sense of eternity about these undying things. Perduring qualities, such as divinity, beauty, justice, and what not.

When we say that something "no se puede morir", the meaning is more practical and mundane: "Steve Jobs no se puede morir, porque sería un desastre para Apple y para el mundo tecnológico" (Steve Jobs cannot -is not allowed to- die, because his death would be disastrous....).

It means that the subject for some reason really cannot, or is not allowed to die, vs. it just being eternal, endless, undying.

Answer 3

Can you also say "no se pueden morir"?

good question -- I was wondering that also -- - NancyGrace, Feb 18, 2011

Yes, and it means the same with or without "se", I'm not sure wich is the "correct" way to say it. I prefer without it. Los zombies no pueden morir = Los zombies no se pueden morir. - SundanceKid, Feb 18, 2011

But, in another example: "Los zombies no pueden matar","Los zombies no se pueden matar". Those phrases have very different meanings. Like "Zombies can't kill" "Zombies cannot be killed" - SundanceKid, Feb 18, 2011

Answer 4

If you wrote: "Él cree firmemente que ciertas cosas no mueren", then I'd say that either or is fine, depending on what exactly you wish to say (cannot or do not). Grammatically speaking, both would be perfect.

Gracias, Gekko, and such a lightning fast reply, too! - NancyGrace, Feb 18, 2011

Is there a pronominal nuance to morirse over morir? Something akin to comer and comerse. Se sometimes give the nuance of abruptly, suddenly. Is that the case here? - 0074b507, Feb 18, 2011