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El dativo no concordado

El dativo no concordado

1
vote

This is a little bit confusing.

"¡No te me pongas impertinente!" or "Me le dais muchos caprichos."

In the first sentence: I think te is dativo and me is indirect object. Therefore does it mean "Don't be rude!"? or "Don't make me be rude!"? I just can't decide.

And in the second sentence: Actually I couldn't get the meaning. What does le stand for? Thanks.

3856 views
updated Jan 21, 2011
edited by culé
posted by culé

5 Answers

5
votes

Hi cule!

¡No te me pongas impertinente!

No DC No IC Subject: Tú Verb : ponerse ( te pongas)

Me le dais muchos caprichos.

Le= IC Muchos caprichos = DC Subject= Vosotros Verb = dar

I think both me are superfluous datives, and they are not DC nor IC. If you remove them, the sentence's meaning doesn't change at all.

If my intuition is right, these are "pronombres de afecto", and they express that the speaker is participating in the emotion. So said, the sentence sounds warmer and kind, but they are only used when you know someone well enough, or among friends.

But wait for more opinions! smile

updated Jan 21, 2011
edited by cogumela
posted by cogumela
I like your first sentence: "If you remove them, the sentence's meaning doesn't change at all" - Dakie, Jan 21, 2011
Does the 'me' not make it specific. Without the me the sentaces reads 'don't get impertinent', with the me it reads some thing like 'don't get impertinent with me'. - afowen, Jan 21, 2011
*something - afowen, Jan 21, 2011
No, in my opinion it doesn't mean that, afowen. It means more, "Come on", don't get impertinent! - cogumela, Jan 21, 2011
Thanks cogu! :) - culé, Jan 21, 2011
4
votes

In the first one the meaning is :* Don't be rude with me**, although I like more the translation Don't start to be rude with me because when we say a phrase like that we want to stop something that's just about to happen or is starting to happen, like someone getting rude with you, I couldn't explain you why because I don't know well the form or the tense of this sentense and I actually had a discussion with a friend about this topic.

.- In the second one I am not sure because its "Spanish" Spanish, but I would infer that the meaning is: You give (him\her) a lot of caprices. Le in this one plays the role of "to him/her". I will write some examples for you because I couldn't explain you nothing.-

  • Me le puse serio a mi esposa.(I got serious with my wife).
  • Te me paraste enfrente y no pude ver nada.(You stood in front of me and I couldn't see anything.) -Se le pusieron rudos al jefe.(They got rude with the boss). In this case "le and les" are going to change depending on the last person or the person that is receiving the action. I hope to have helped, this is really hard to explain in english.
updated Jan 21, 2011
edited by Dakie
posted by Dakie
It might be more colloquial to say, "don't (you) get rude with me" or "don't (you) start getting rude with me." In both cases, the subject pronoun (you) would be optional but could be used to add extra emphasis - Izanoni1, Jan 21, 2011
Thanks. :) - Dakie, Jan 21, 2011
Gracias Dakie ;) - culé, Jan 21, 2011
1
vote

:I can only add that in the case of "¡No te me pongas impertinente!" the "me" makes this a very personal thing.

I agree. I´d have phrased it slightly differently in English and in Spanish to emphasize the distinction: "Don't get fresh with me, young man/woman/whatever!" and "¡No hagas el impertinente conmigo!" In either case, the emphasis shifts from general behavior to behavior in light of the personal relationship.

updated Jan 21, 2011
posted by samdie
Gracias sam ;) - culé, Jan 21, 2011
1
vote

Both Cogumela and Dakie have given excellent explainations. I can only add that in the case of "¡No te me pongas impertinente!" the "me" makes this a very personal thing. The person saying this is conveying that the action bothers him/her greatly, and is not just giving general advice in the imparative case.

updated Jan 21, 2011
posted by 005faa61
Gracias Julian :) - culé, Jan 21, 2011
1
vote

"¡No te me pongas impertinente!" or "Me le dais muchos caprichos."

In the first sentence: I think te is dativo and me is indirect object. Therefore does it mean "Don't be rude!"? or "Don't make me be rude!"? I just can't decide.

Something is wrong here: those are "dativos no concordados", since the dative "me" in those sentences doesn't agree with the subject: they just add an appreciative note regarding how it affects me in a very indirect manner. The "dativo concordado" is the one is "Me como un bocadillo", "Te comes...", "Se come...", where the pronoun is not a direct or an indirect object in the typical sense, but it must agree with the subject (and the verb).

The first sentence would normally be "No te pongas...", with "ponerse" being a pronominal form. The "me", which is completely colloquial, can easily be removed, but it indicates how concerned you are about the fact. The second sentence would normally be "Le dais muchos.... [a él]", with the "me" being added for similar reasons.

And in the second sentence: Actually I couldn't get the meaning. What does le stand for? Thanks.

A plain indirect object.

Por cierto, ¿de dónde has sacado algo tan técnico como "dativo concordado"?

updated Jan 21, 2011
edited by lazarus1907
posted by lazarus1907
Es que en el libro que tengo solamente dice que esas cosas se denominan dativos NO concordados -que tienes razón que me equivoqué- y no hay ninguna explicación. solamente me enseñó cómo se llaman, nada más, pero claro me dio curiosidad. Gracias. - culé, Jan 21, 2011