Desde el momento - since (because)

Question

Hi all!

Is it possible that desde el momento means because, like since? Here is my sentence:

Desde el momento que la política se sirve de las demás ciencias prácticas y legisla sobre lo que debe hacerse y lo que debe evitarse, el fin que le es propio abraza los de todas las otras ciencias, al punto de ser por excelencia el bien humano.

I'd translate it like:

Since politics uses the rest of the sciences, and it legislates as to what we are to do and what we are to abstain from, the end of this science must include those of the others, being the excellence of the human good.

Then, if I'm not wrong, this means desde el momento can be used in the situations where we use since? I've seen the dictionary, it says causa but I've really never heard it... And as it's philosophy I can't be sure whether it's used in daily life or not.. Thanks a lot.

Good question; I always have trouble with those types of words and phrases on the beginning of sentences. - Leanahtan, Jan 18, 2011

Hola Culé, got my vote and Im watching también ;) - EL_MAG0, Jan 23, 2011

Answer 1

If you are asking if the concept can be translated with since, you are correct. if you are asking if the terms can be used in formal as well as informal speech, the answer is yes.

If you are considering the possibility that those words can always be the best choice when translating, that´s hard to say. Translation is not a question of words but of concepts, so the same idea can be rendered in different words or expressions and you can spend a whole evening discussing which is the best translation.

Considering politics relies upon the rest of the sciences, and it legislates upon what has to be done and what has to be avoided, its own end encompasses those of the other sciences, to the extreme of being the human good par excellence.

There are good translations and bad translations, but the parameters to define that involve more than just choosing the right words.

Great answer! - Gekkosan, Jan 24, 2011

Answer 2

I emphatically disagree with the the suggestion that these both mean the same thing. Furthermore, I think the problem lies entirely with the dual meaning of "since" in English". One meaning of "since" is "from the moment". This is a statement about time relationships (and corresponds to "desde el momento que ...") An entirely different meaning of "since" is to assert a causal connection in Spanish, perhaps, "dado que" or "ya que") e.g. "Since what you say, is total nonsense, I refuse to continue this discussion."

Desde el momento que la política se sirve de las demás ciencias prácticas y legisla sobre lo que debe hacerse y lo que debe evitarse, el fin que le es propio abraza los de todas las otras ciencias, al punto de ser por excelencia el bien humano.

From the moment that politics uses the other practical sciences and legislates what ought to be done and what ought to be avoided, its goal (which embraces all other sciences) is appropriate to it and embraces those of of all other sciences, to the point of being for human good.

There is a common (and famous) logical fallacy called "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" (first named, I believe, by Aristotle). In simple terms, it refers to the common assumption that because B occurs after A, B is/was caused by A. Usually one sees this sort of statement "75% of all heroine users, smoked marijuana previously." This is meant to suggest that use of marijuana causes (or, necessarily, leads to) heroine addiction. Of course, one could also say that "100% of heroine users drank milk (or wore diapers or any number of other things that are normal behavior for babies/children). One of the major problems of research is showing that A causes B, rather than that B is often preceded (for whatever reason) by B.

The original Spanish passage says nothing about causes. It say, rather, that when politics (is in a position to take advantage of ) other sciences, it can begin to use them (their knowledge) for the betterment of mankind.

Exactly!!!! I had the feeling that sth was wrong here, but I am too bad at Sp. to have my say here :/ Thanks a lot for your thorough explanation! :) - bomberapolaca, Jan 25, 2011

Answer 3

I think Mediterrunio's answer is great. I just want to help drive the idea home a bit more firmly.

Desde el momento que la política se sirve de las demás ciencias prácticas y legisla sobre lo que debe hacerse y lo que debe evitarse,

I think that Culé's interpretation is not wrong:

Since politics uses the rest of the sciences, and it legislates as to what we are to do and what we are to abstain from,...

However, in terms of a faithful translation, both in meaning and structure, I prefer Meditterunio's version. I'd even go for a more literal translation, as Jeezle proposed:

"From the (very) moment in which politics makes use of the other practical sciencies, and makes legislation over what must be done and what must be avoided..."

The bottomline, as everyone has pretty much agreed, is that "desde" can definitely be used as since, as well as "from".

Myselfyo and Jeezle use the example of "me enamoré desde que te vi" - "I feel in love from the moment I saw you" or "since I first saw you" (I like "from the moment" better).

A better example is: "It's been like that since time immemorial" - "Ha sido de esa manera desde tiempos inmemoriales".

Other uses:

" Since you asked" - "Ya que lo preguntas"

"Since when have you been here?" - "¿Desde cuándo estás aquí?"

"Since you care" - "En vista de que te importa / ya que te importa".

Answer 4

Desde el momento que/en que... = since...

You're all right.

You can use this expression in daily life, at least in Spain. For example: me enamoré de ti desde el momento en que te vi. - I fell in love with you since i saw you.

In what sense. I´m it talking about a certain point of time not because. - BellaMargarita, Jan 18, 2011

I fell in love with you since i saw you....esta frase no suena bien en inglés, es mejor decir: "I fell in love with you the moment I saw you" o "I've been in love you with you since I first saw you." - --Jen--, Jan 20, 2011

Answer 5

Why has none of the natives contributed to the discussion so far? It seems, Cule, that your question is a tough nut to crack There should be additional points awarded for such killers

Jeje, I bet no one did see this on time ;) - culé, Jan 18, 2011

Answer 6

I think it may be used like that but not always, because here it really makes sense.

I want to see the real answer too... Anyone?

Answer 7

I always thought it was "from the very moment that......." which could be like since, but in your sentence it definitely looks like since.

Te amo, desde el momento en el que te vi. I love you, from the very moment that I saw you.

Yes, and your example is definitely since, it's the meaning of whole this thing but what I wonder is if we can use it like "I understand you since I know you very well." normally not, but apparently este tío lo usó así... - culé, Jan 18, 2011

**Normally it wouldn't seem logical to me... - culé, Jan 18, 2011

It's interesting that sometimes a word can be twisted to have a very slightly different meaning, so that "since" can be used in a very different way than "from the moment that". I wonder what the Gekko might say here. - jeezzle, Jan 18, 2011

Answer 8

The Oxford Spanish-English dictionary says that that is a colloquial usage from the Southern Cone.

Answer 9

1. List item

Well, I've checked RAE and it says nothing about such usage of that preposition: http://en.bab.la/dictionary/portuguese-english/desde However, bear in mind that it may mean the same as "después de" ... But I am not a native, so maybe let's wait for the answers of others.