A double subjunctive?

Question

You know, like double negative? In the past, I've tried to use the subjunctive and have had this question... and again, today I have it. I'm not sure how to explain it but here's an example:

Maybe he doesn't think it's true.

In this sentence, would the verbs for "to think" and "to be" be in subjunctive form, like:

Quizás no piense que sea verdadero.

... or would just "pensar" be in the subjunctive. (One of my study books says that the verb after "tal vez" or "quizás" goes into subjunctive form. It also says that when expressing doubt [i.e., "no pensar"], the subjunctive should be used)

Also, what about sentences such as:

I hope that he realizes that it's true.

Espero que se dé cuenta de que sea verdadero.

Should the 2nd part be "es verdadero" instead? Perhaps because it's "true"? No sé. Ayúdanme por favor

Bonus Question: Is there any real difference between "verdadero" and "cierto"?

Gracias de antemano

Nice question :) - Kiwi-Girl, Jan 31, 2011

Thanks :) - Goldie_Miel, Jan 31, 2011

Answer 1

Quizás no piense que sea verdadero.

... or would just "pensar" be in the subjunctive. (One of my study books says that the verb after "tal vez" or "quizás" goes into subjunctive form. It also says that when expressing doubt [i.e., "no pensar"], the subjunctive should be used)

"Quizá" determines the mood of "pensar", and "pensar" determines the mood of "ser", but sometimes natives perceive things differently. Both options are natural and correct here (es / sea). "Pensar" normally requires "es", but the verb of opinion can be though of as irrelevant, and the sentence interpreted as "Quizá sea verdadero (para él/ella)", where "sea" is also justified.

Espero que se dé cuenta de que sea verdadero.

"Sea" is unacceptable here. "Darse cuenta de" focuses on a declaration, so it demands indicative. The "middle" verb cannot be ignored like before, because it changes the meaning of the sentence.

Answer 2

Recomiendo que estudies mucho para que tengas (o tienes??) éxito.

Definitely "tengas". The conjunctive phrase "para que" (in order to) refers to future aims, so it is "un-declarable". Although it would be fine with subjunctive, it would sound a bit better with "Te recomiendo..." And of course, as you said before, the infinitive is a very good option instead of the subjunctive.

One last thing: I'd personally would say something like "para que te vaya bien en la vida", or even "por un futuro próspero", just to avoid that "éxito", which sounds to me like you are trying to be a famous person, like a singer.

So then, it all boils down to declarable and un-declarable? - Goldie_Miel, Jan 12, 2011

Tener éxito en la vida is a very common expression in Spanish and does not apply to famous people only. Goldie's construction is great with the use of the subjunctive. - gone, Jan 31, 2011

Thanks for that addition. Perhaps it's just a culture difference as, I believe, Lazarus is from Spain (and you, I suppose, of Latin American origin?). Just a guess... - Goldie_Miel, Feb 1, 2011

Answer 3

I'm always loathe to state a rule as more often than not there is an exception but .... i believe that 'para que' is always followed by the subjunctive because it is always going to refer to something that's anticipated or hypothetical rather than factual, completed or habitual.

Hehe, that's true @ "exceptions". Entiendo lo que quieres decir por "hypothetical". Grax. - Goldie_Miel, Jan 31, 2011

Answer 4

So then, it all boils down to declarable and un-declarable?

or sometimes it may well be declarable but you just don't want to declare it ..... I think lol - I am still learning with this but 'sooooooo' want to get the whole psyche of the thing!!! - Kiwi-Girl, Jan 31, 2011

Oh, wow. I'm right there with you. I guess I'll just have to be exposed to more examples of this subjunctive thing. Why does it have to be so complex?? lol - Goldie_Miel, Feb 1, 2011

Answer 5

Ok. Thanks for the response. I understand for the most part the explanation for the 1st part and completely "get" the 2nd. However, I'm still a little bit confused about when to change the "final" verb(s) for instances like this:

Recomiendo que estudies mucho para que tengas (o tienes??) éxito.

This problem could probably be avoided by simply using "para tener éxito", huh? Lol. Nevertheless, it's my example.

I guess my real question is: How do you handle subjunctives in long sentences (with more than 2 verbs)? Should all the verbs (other than the initial one) be in subjunctive form unless what is stated is already existing or has already occurred?