Spanish conditional versus English modals

Question

I'm getting a little tied up here with using the simple conditional in Spanish. Having watched the video and read the grammar notes, I've grasped that, when using the conditional to talk about hypothetical situations, it generally translates as would:

estudiaría mas, pero tengo dolar de cabeza I would study more but I have a headache

But what happens if you want to express could or might. E,g,: A: There's a lot of noise outside. B: We could close the window

Would you use: A: Hay mucho ruido afuera. B: Podríamos cerrar la ventana - or - A: Hay mucho ruido afuera. B: Cerraríamos la ventana

Similarly, for might: There's a massive queue at the ticket off. We might miss the start

Is it: Hay una fila enorme en la boletería. Perderíamos el inicio. - or something else?

I hope you can help.

Answer 1

Para "Hay mucho ruido afuera" lo correcto es "Podríamos cerrar la ventana" - veroz

If conditional is used in Spanish to express probability, as in might, then wouldn't 'Podríamos cerrar la ventana" mean "We might be able to close the window" instead of "We could close the window"? It seems to me that the former construction places the 'conditionalness' on the ability to close the window, instead of on the closing of the window itsself.

Please excuse my ignorance; I am not fluent or anything close to it.

Good question! In spanish, the verb "poder" is not only used to talk about ability... but probability too. When you ask somebody "podrías comprarme un helado?" you are not asking about his salary, or the money in his pocket, but if he wants to buy it - veroz, Jan 4, 2011

It´s like the form "Could you please...?" - veroz, Jan 4, 2011

Thanks veroz! - Leanahtan, Jan 4, 2011

Answer 2

So, to surmise (I think):

• the future simple means it will definitely happen > "hay una fina enorma - nos perderé el inicio" - there's an enormous que - we will miss the start

• to express doubt, or possibility, we would use the conditional form of 'poder' > "hay una fina enorma - podríamos perdernos el inicio" - there's an enormous queue, we could/might miss the start

• we don't use the conditional form of 'perder' in this example

Similarly:

• "hay mucho ruido afuera - cerraré la ventana" - There is a lot of noise outside - I will close the window (expresses firm intention)

• "hay mucho ruido aguera" - podría cerrar la ventana" - There is a lot of noise outside - I could close the window (expresses possible intention)

• "hay mucho ruido afuera - cerraría la ventana, pero no puedo alcanzarla" - There is a lot of noise outside - I would close the window but I can't reach it (expresses intention that will not be realised)

Looks like you have it. You don't use the conditional of perder in the same manner as you don't in English. We could (conjugated) miss [us] (infinitive) the start. - afowen, Jan 4, 2011

Answer 3

Cerraría la ventana - I would close the window.

I would say:

cerraré la ventana = I might close the window at some point in the future
cerraría la ventana = it's somewhat less likely, but still possible that I might close the window

as independent clauses. The meanings would be different for dependent clauses with a preceding if clause.

So there is nothing definite about cerraré la ventana? So cerraré does not equal I will close? - afowen, Jan 4, 2011

Cerraré la ventana = I´m making the decision of closing the window. Cerraré = I will close. Cerraría is not used in this case... maybe if you add a conditional like "cerraría la ventana si...pudiera" (i would close the window if...I could, for example) - veroz, Jan 4, 2011

Veroz, do you then not agree with Lorenzo regarding the definite nature of cerraré? I have always thought the future tense in Spanish to be as definite as that in English. Maybe this is why so many people in Colombia don't do as they promise :-) - afowen, Jan 4, 2011

All the Latam. politicians would agree with you! =) I think we use "voy a cerrar la ventana" more ofthen than "cerraré la ventana"... in all cases, with no specific reason. In Latinoamérica we just use "voy a..." in Spain they use "cerraré" - veroz, Jan 4, 2011

Voy a cerrar la ventana = I am going to close the window. Cerraré la ventana = I going to close the window, but you're going to have to check and see if I did or not. - lorenzo9, Jan 4, 2011

But is that inherent in the language or more the use thereof in Ecuador. I know that if someone here tells me they will do something I have to check it but until that I've put that down to a culture of slackness rather than something inherent in meaning.. - afowen, Jan 4, 2011

But is that inherent in the language or more the use thereof in Ecuador. I know that if someone here tells me they will do something I have to check it but until now I've put that down to a culture of slackness rather than something inherent in meaning... - afowen, Jan 4, 2011

And I still need to check if they say 'voy a...' - afowen, Jan 4, 2011

Answer 4

The ía... conditional verb endings translate to would plus infinitive in English.

Cerraría la ventana - I would close the window.

Podríá is the conditional form of 'to be able to' i.e. could

Podría cerrar la ventana - I could close the window.

'Perderíamos el inicio' means we would miss the start, which you'd not way in English. Veroz has suggested you use 'Nos perderemos el inicio' which means, literally, 'we will miss the start'. Unless I've missed a subtlety, this has lost the 'might' element.

You could say something like 'talvez nos perderemos el inicio' which would mean 'maybe we'll miss the start.

Then again, I aint a native speaker

To express probablity you can use quizá, quizás and talvez (or even de pronto in Colombia). Let's wait to see what the natives say regarding their use in a sentence like the above :-) - afowen, Jan 4, 2011

Those options are very well too (talvez, quizás, de pronto) and that way you don´t loose the "might" element - veroz, Jan 4, 2011

Does though, 'talvez nos perderemos el inicio' sound natural? My girlfiend just told me 'podemos perdernos el inicio' which literally means we can miss (us) the start... - afowen, Jan 4, 2011

It´s better: "talvez nos perdamos el inicio", or as your girlfriend said "podemos perdernos el inicio". They both sound natural. - veroz, Jan 4, 2011

Thanks. - afowen, Jan 4, 2011

Answer 5

Is there really no way to express the possibility of missing the start rather than the certainty? "Nos perderemos el inicio" means we will miss the start doesn't it?

Yes, it means that. You are guessing it from the large queue you are looking at. Another way could be "podríamos perdernos el inicio" - veroz, Jan 4, 2011

The conditional form is used different: "no me perdería el inicio por nada del mundo" (you are doing all that is possible to be there at the beggining) - veroz, Jan 4, 2011

Answer 6

When used in an independent clause, both the future and condirional tenses in Spanish express more of a probability than an ability to do something in a way that is different than the way natives speak English. (and yes, I used than instead of from on purpose)

Sorry, crossed posts - that's illuminating. - jaynescarman, Jan 4, 2011

Answer 7

Para "Hay mucho ruido afuera" lo correcto es "Podríamos cerrar la ventana"

"Hay una enorme fila en la boletería" --> "Nos perderemos el inicio"

En ninguno de estos casos específicos se usa la forma condicional del verbo principal. No se me ocurren ejemplos diferentes...