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Has been / Have been and the Present Tense

Has been / Have been and the Present Tense

3
votes

I was just having a read through an old grammar book and under the heading 'The Present Tense' the following sample sentences appeared:

Estamos casados desde junio.

Vivo aquí desde abril.

Hace un mes que estudio español.

Hace quince años que vivimos aquí.

along with the explanation that the present tense describes all action still happening now even if they began some time ago in the past.

This highlighted one of the mistakes that I think I've been making and I wondered if others might be doing the same.

The mistake, I feel, is using 'has' or 'have been' when a native speaker would simple use the present tense and if the sentence speaks of a certain period of time it would be used with 'hace' and if it refers to a certain time or date it would be used with 'desde'.

Now I could of course be mistaken - so I would appreciate any comments from both English speakers learning Spanish, to know if they have ever noticed this or if they feel that they do it and from native Spanish speakers as to whether my observation is correct and to explain when they might choose to use 'he estado' etc over simply using the present tense?

All comments much appreciated as always smile

6794 views
updated Jan 8, 2012
edited by Kiwi-Girl
posted by Kiwi-Girl

8 Answers

3
votes

along with the explanation that the present tense describes all action still happening now even if they began some time ago in the past.

The present tense has nothing to do with it. The words "desde" and "hace" profile the entire action from the past until the present moment, and then the present tense finishes the statement.

In English things are quite different, because you don't have markers like "desde" and "hace" capable of dragging all past events to the present moment, like in Spanish. They refer to the past, but they keep the focus on the past, so you need other tenses to refer to those past moments to make sense of the whole thing. In Spanish, they "scoop" the entire past to the present moment, so present tense makes perfect sense.

As usual, it is just an over-simplification to try to illustrate the problem, which is all about perspective.

P.D. This topic is detailed in "my grammar" in detail, but the details are still in progress, you it could be many years before anyone can access this info.

updated Dec 20, 2010
edited by lazarus1907
posted by lazarus1907
Thanks Lazarus, yes I understand that it's the 'desde' and 'hace' that makes this sentence structure possible but it seems less 'normal' (ie. nativo) to say something like - "hemos estado viviendo aquí por cinco años' - is that correct too or should - Kiwi-Girl, Dec 18, 2010
we be using the present tense more in the above constructions? and does the 'hemos estado .... etc' sound weird even if it is gramatically correct? - Kiwi-Girl, Dec 18, 2010
What is 'my grammar' is that your book? - Kiwi-Girl, Dec 18, 2010
2
votes

HI Kiwi,from my point of view the preterito perfecto is not comparable with the present perfect form in English and this is what I teach.

Whereas in English you could never say: This morning I have eaten with Peter. In Spanish from Spain this would be said: Este mañana he comido con Pepe.

Here we are talking about a completed action in the past and there is no way at all you can use this in any way similar in English.

I have just found a very intersting page on Instututo -cervantes. You will like itwink

Please scroll down and you will see that where we in Spain use present perfect in other countries or even regions in Spain like Galicia (ask Cogumelawink ) the past simple is used.

The two tenses are nowhere close as strictly seperated as in English.

Hace mucho que no sé nada de Pepe. Pues he hablado con él hace solo cinco minutos.

I haven't heard from Pepe for a long time. Well, I spoke to him only five minutes ago. (as this is a finished action in the past, there is no way you could use present perfect here in English)

updated Dec 20, 2010
posted by 00494d19
gracias Heidi :) - Kiwi-Girl, Dec 20, 2010
very good link too I'll bookmark it :) - Kiwi-Girl, Dec 20, 2010
2
votes

Thanks Lazarus, yes I understand that it's the 'desde' and 'hace' that makes this sentence structure possible but it seems less 'normal' (ie. nativo) to say something like - "hemos estado viviendo aquí por cinco años' - is that correct too or should

It is correct, I suppose, but it sounds "foreign" to me, while "Llevar" sounds "natural to me.

we be using the present tense more in the above constructions? and does the 'hemos estado .... etc' sound weird even if it is gramatically correct?

"Hemos estado casados desde junio" is fine, but it gives too much importance to the process itself as it was going on, rather than just stating facts. "He vivido aquí desde abril" sounds a bit weird. It gives a lot of importance to a moment in the past that was in "the middle of the action", but says nothing about what is going on now.

updated Dec 20, 2010
posted by lazarus1907
ok great, thank you - Kiwi-Girl, Dec 18, 2010
2
votes

Using hacer + time period: As explained in this lesson, the hace form of hacer followed by a measurement of time is commonly used as the equivalent of "ago" in sentences such as this: Hace una semana estudiaba mucho. (A week ago I was studying hard.) But when an hace phrase is followed by que and a verb in the present tense, it can refer to something that is still occurring:

  • Hace un año que estoy preocupado. I have been worried for a year.
  • Estoy aburrido. Hace tres días que hay poco que hacer. I'm bored. There has been little to do for three days.
  • Hace treinta minutos que ya tengo treinta años. I have already been 30 years old for 30 minutes.

Special usage: hacer with expressions of time.

To indicate an action which started in (prior) past time and which is viewed as still continuing in past time, the imperfect is used. In English this is often expressed with “for” plus a period of time, with the verb in the past perfect progressive.

  • Hacía tres horas que trabajaba I had been working for three hours
  • (cuando algo extraño pasó). (when something strange happened).
  • or:
  • Trabajaba desde hacía tres horas I had been working for three hours
  • (cuando algo extraño pasó). (when something strange happened).

Notes:

  1. In these expressions of time, you can use hacía ... que before the verb, or desde hacía after the verb, as shown in two examples given above.
updated Dec 20, 2010
edited by 0074b507
posted by 0074b507
Thank you Quentin, that's great info - I have learnt that too but what I was trying to say was that I still tend to form sentences based on English sentence structure so find myself using 'he estado' etc a lot more than 'estoy .... desde...' and I was - Kiwi-Girl, Dec 18, 2010
wondering if that was very un-native (to coin a phrase) or do both work just as well and would native speakers lean more towards one structure or not? I hardly ever seem to hear any one say 'he estado ....' we seem to use it so much more in English, but - Kiwi-Girl, Dec 18, 2010
maybe I've just been missing it in Spanish?? - Kiwi-Girl, Dec 18, 2010
I am sure you are not the only one Marie Claire join the queue lol I have a lot to learn too lol :) - FELIZ77, Dec 20, 2010
1
vote

@ Johnny - these may be useful smile The basics of Haber and Conjugate haber

updated Dec 20, 2010
edited by Kiwi-Girl
posted by Kiwi-Girl
1
vote

So to encapsulate this little lot:

Firstly, the present perfect is used in a time-frame which is not yet finished.

(from the past to, and including, the present)

Secondly, in situations which refer to actions begun in the past which continue, English uses the Present Perfect but Spanish uses three other structures just as well (and dare I say the present perfect would actually be used with less frequency than the following):

Eg: English / I've lived here for five years.

Spanish / Hace cinco años que vivo aquí. (or)

Vivo aquí desde hace cinco años. (or)

Llevo cinco años viviendo aquí.

Sorry, one last question, would any spanish speaker ever say the above sentence using the present perfect? or does everyone feel like Lazarus that it's a bit strange?

updated Dec 20, 2010
posted by Kiwi-Girl
1
vote

Sorry, one last question, would any spanish speaker ever say the above sentence using the present perfect? or does everyone feel like Lazarus that it's a bit strange?

I agree with this, nobody from Spain, that does not mean nobody would use it, they do in American countries all the time, but I wonder if that is due to English influencewink

He estado casada durante 5 años y no volveré a casarme jamás.

What do you think? Am I still married? this would be a typical sentence using present perfect, a perfectly finished action in the past.

updated Dec 20, 2010
posted by 00494d19
0
votes

I was wondering about the verb Haber. My spanish teacher is being vague about it because she thinks it would be way to complicated to explain. I know the word Hay is the el/ella form of Haber and Hubo and Hubía are the preterite and imperfect forms but what about the yo form and all the other forms? Can someone give me the run down on the word Haber?

updated Dec 18, 2010
posted by JohnnyK
había :) imp - Kiwi-Girl, Dec 18, 2010