Le doy el libro a Pepe. Los encontré unos amigos en el bar.

Question

Le doy el libro a Pepe. Los encontré unos amigos en el bar.

A friend told me , in the second sentece, i can only say los encontre en el bar, or Encontre unos aigos en el bar. Los and unos amigos can´t exist at the same sentence. But how about the first one then? Le and el libro both exit at the same sentence. Does it mean , indirect object could exist at the same time,but direct object can only exist one? for example, only los or unos amigos? but for indirect object, both could exist together in one sentence?

Answer 1

Hi zhmelissa,

Regarding Le doy el libro a Pepe...

Le is not part of the verb.

Le does stand for Pepe.

Le is required (if you wish to show that you gave the book TO somebody).

A Pepe is optional, but, if you put it, you must still put the LE.

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Regarding Los encontré unos amigos en el bar...

Los does stand for unos amigos.

You must choose between either los or unos amigos (you cannot have both).

The sentence should actually be: Encontré a unos amigos en el bar or Los encontré en el bar.

If you choose to use unos amigos, it must be preceded by "personal a" (because they are people).

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The rule is that, for indirect objects, the pronoun (LE) must be included whether the noun it stands for is or not but that, for direct objects, you must use either the pronoun or the noun but not both.

The difference is between direct objects and indirect objects, and Spanish is, I think, unique in that it requires an indirect object pronoun when the noun it stands for is also in the sentence.

At first this confused me, too. It no longer confuses me, but it still hard for me to make myself do.

great answer - 00494d19, Dec 17, 2010

Answer 2

Your analysis is only partially correct.

As for the indirect object pronoun it is necessay to the sentence. The clarifying phrase, a. xxxx, is optional and only helps explain who the i.o.p. refers to.

The direct object may not have a d.o.p. It may be a proper noun like (a) Juan or there may be a d.o.p. without any clarifying phrase.

There are cases where both exist (similar to the i.o.p. and clarifying clause). It usually only happens when the d.o. comes before the verb.

redundant object pronouns

The redundant pronoun is required when the actual direct or indirect object precedes the verb.

Eso lo quiero yo. That is what I want.

Eso no lo sé. That I don't know.

Dinero lo tengo a montones. I have tons of money.

A Pablo le envié flores. I sent flowers to Pablo.

So your analysis is usually correct. The d.o. sentence usually only has either the pronoun or the a xxxx phrase, but it is not incorrect if both are used in certain cases.

The link seems incorrect to me Q. It basically says that the le is optional if the IO is also spelled out and follows the verb. - webdunce, Dec 17, 2010

That is not the only article where I have read that. I never bring it up since it conflicts with what is taught in the lessons here. You can ask Lazarus if it is absolutely needed for correct grammar. I think he has hinted that it is not a necessity, - 0074b507, Dec 17, 2010

but is the common usage. - 0074b507, Dec 17, 2010

I think that his advice was to always use it since it is always acceptable and easier to just always use it than learn when it can be omitted. - 0074b507, Dec 17, 2010

Answer 3

For me, Paralee's lesson explained it superbly. I still have to revise it at times though, of course it never ends just with one lesson!

2.3 Parties with Direct and Indirect Object Pronouns

Answer 4

for direct objects, you must use either the pronoun or the noun but not both.

This might interest you. Another discussion where the direct object precedes the verb and a redundant direct object pronoun is used.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there, niña. It's all to do with the word order; If you choose to use normal sentence order (subject+verb+object), you don't need to use lo,la, los or las. However, if you choose to start your sentence with the object, thus changing the normal word order of the sentence, then you use lo or la to help the listener understand what the object of your sentence is. That's why: Esta caja la compré vs. Compré esta caja.

It's not a normal thing to do in English unless you're trying some stylistic effect (try it and see!) but for once (!) Spanish is more flexible.

Another example in case you think that I am misleading you:

1. The Redundant Construction with Nouns. On account of the common use of the double pronoun construction treated in 154 and 155, the object pronouns of the third person, lo, la, los, las, le, les, se, may be used even when the object of the verb is a noun. The indirect object pronouns are more commonly used than the direct object forms. For greater emphasis or for contrast, the noun object may precede the pronoun.

   A Juan lo ví ayer y a María la ví hoy.

I saw John yesterday and I saw Mary to-day.

Answer 5

For most languages, you would NOT include the pronoun if the noun it stands for is in the sentence. However, due to certain qualities of Spanish grammar, it is necessary to include LE even when the noun is present. This helps to prevent certain confusions, if I remember correctly, but I don't remember which confusions.

Answer 6

los is taking the place of los amigos - its like saying them in english.

Le is part of the verb, dar so it indicates giving the book TO Pepe. You can either include pepe or not.

Yes, as for le doy el libro a pepe, pepe could be added or without,both are ok,but another sentence, only exist one, either los o unos amigos. both can't exist the same time. i dont know why - zhmelissa, Dec 16, 2010