What do you define as "advanced"?
Just wondering what other people define as being advanced or proficient in a language. What separates an intermediate speaker from an advanced speaker? I currently classify myself as intermediate in Spanish because:
- I'm definitely past the basics
- I can understand pretty well (depending on the speaker, haha) and communicate alright, I suppose...
- I still have my occasional struggles with past tense, lo/la vs. le, and subjunctive
- I think I could survive a week in a Spanish-speaking country (lol), but nevertheless, I still have a lot of vocabulary I could learn (gosh, I can't wait to reach "advanced"... or dare I say "fluency", eek!)
So, what's your opinion? By the way, this isn't limited only to English speakers. Spanish speakers are welcome! 
14 Answers
Knowing whether one is a beginner, intermediate or advanced is kind of like being in love..you just know that you are or not. Just keep working on it as much as you possibly can without worrying about your 'classification', and then one day, you'll just realize and know that you are advanced (or maybe one day - fluent).
The following is not meant to discourage, quite the opposite, it's to help people work harder.
The mountain to climb between levels gets exponentially higher. O sea - the mountain between beginner to intermediate is the lowest mountain (but still a mountain), and then it takes a lot more climbing to scale the mountain that connects 'intermediate' to 'advanced' and then even higher than that mountain is the mountain that connects 'advanced' to 'fluent'. This last mountain may be that one mountain that many cannot scale as this is truly one high mofo, haha.
I myself have been 'stuck' in advanced for about a year and a half/2 years now. I keep developing of course into a more advanced, advanced, (that is that I'm getting higher on that mountain that separates adv. from fluent), but I'm still only advanced. Keep scaling, stay on the trail, one day we'll get there my friends and will be able to see the view from the absolute top.
-Charlius-
Here's my favorite description of the different levels of fluency. On this scale I'm a low level conversationalist. I can read newspapers, listen to the radio, watch (most) TV, and hold normal conversations, but I still have to adjust what I say based on my vocabulary and grammatical knowledge.
That's pretty interesting. I can definitely participate in extended conversations and understand the language at all levels. My English students do not dare to even whisper nasty things in a noisy class, because they know I will hear what they say, even in their strong local accent. I can even understand strong Scottish accents without a problem.
I have no problems with slang, literary or technical English whatsoever, and I understand jokes, puns and all sort of twists of the language. I can write in proper English if I am careful enough, and I understand the most complicated grammar structures. I can even proof-read to a certain extent something written by a native speaker, especially if it is a technical text. I write notes to myself in English, and I am not even good at translating from English to Spanish, since I know what words and expressions mean in English, but I have never considered how they are expressed in Spanish. I find myself telling my (British) students that they can't say this or that because "it sounds bad", as my only argument.
According to that page, that makes me a native speaker. However, although I can be very accurate if I want to, there are lots of residual bits and bobs in my English that I never learnt properly in the first place (like dropping subject pronouns), and they keep hunting me even though I am aware of them. And of course, every now and then I come up with an expression that no native would say. While in terms of understanding, listening and analysing grammar I can outperform many natives, and I can write better than many, I still make -and will make- mistakes that no native will ever make. For this reason alone, I would create a new category, which is not necessarily lower than native from many points of view, but it differentiates you from real natives, who may have a limited vocabulary and grammar, but do not make foreigner's mistakes. That, I believe, is my category.
By the way, this may inspire some people to keep trying hard: I watched my first movie in English when I was 23 years old. I don't think I could even understand 5% of it -it was one where Harrison Ford was a lawyer who escaped after being convicted for the crime of murdering his wife, which he didn't commit. At that time I could not hold a conversation for more than 10 seconds without going blank.
My advice: read, read, watch TV, watch TV, do it again, and again... until it feels natural. Find stuff you really enjoy, or it will take you forever.
Hmm, that is quite interesting Iazarus..
I agree with you in that we should create another distinction. How about we call that level the 'Foreign fluent'. I really don't know if it ever is possible to become JUST like a native speaker because of one simple reason..the first steps that led to the learning of the language were completely different. The native speaker grew up in the language and learned it more organically while the foreigner started out with grammar and vocab memorization. These learning methods are drastically different from each other and naturally, will yield some different results.
In the 'Foreign fluent's' case, to COMPLETELY get rid of all the things that a native would never, ever say, I think it would take several more years in a total immersion environment even after being able to perfectly express whatever is on one's mind, being able to understand long jokes, understand every accent there is out there and being able to read and write flawlessly. That's just the nature of the beast..to run into all these cases, it takes time.
-Charlius-
This question comes up periodically, and it's a good one. Here's my favorite description of the different levels of fluency. On this scale I'm a low level conversationalist. I can read newspapers, listen to the radio, watch (most) TV, and hold normal conversations, but I still have to adjust what I say based on my vocabulary and grammatical knowledge.
At the end of the day, does it really matter if you are fluent or passable, I believe it is more important to be able to get your point across, or comprehend what is said to, or being asked of you. When the day comes that a tombstone reader passes my grave, do you think it will amount to a hill of beans that my headstone says, " he spoke spanish fluently ". I don't think so.
For me, I am not at all advanced, but I am advancing. I enjoyed KevinB's link very much. I most definitely am in the beginner area, and as Charlius indicates, I know this. I know it because comments or questions are asked fully in Spanish and out comes the dictionary and google translator! I could not have enjoyed this discussion back in July which is when I joined. I felt so foolish and out of place. Like I didn't belong. But no matter what level we are in we do belong because our love of language makes us want to obtain the next level. As Heida says, it's important to forget the feeling of foolishness. For me it's more than forgetting but coping with and enduring the feeling of foolish and still taking the risk to move on, to push forward. Gracias por esta discusión. (One complete sentence fully on my own!)
Anybody who wants to see if he is advanced: come to an advanced chat
The other day I hosted a chat on bullfighting, emotions flew high, trust me, jeje, so the natives: Chile, Spain (3!!), Mexico spoke really fast . However, the advanced students who assisted: Marianne, Eddy, Samdie (soberbio su español) , Valerie followed the conversation without a problem. Some "listeners", like Sally or Cathy , who had prepared something on bullfight herself, well done Cathy, could also understand some...I guess the rest was completely lost, jeje.
Thing is, you must try , that is it. Lazarus said he watched the first movie understanding like a 5% ....way to go! I am always saying the same.
How many beginners have come to the chat and are now "fijos" who did not understand a single word I was saying, even though I was talking slowly? Well, they are there now and understand almost everything.
One essential thing you must do: forget about "I'm making a fool out of myself", that is the best advice I can give you
I'm still debating whether I'm a beginner or intermediate. I'll worry about what advanced means in a year or two.
Excellent point, Charlius; I totally agree.
I am stuck at "advanced" because I am not a native speaker, and - in my personal private logic - a non-native speaker can rarely be fluent.
I have heard people identify themselves as "fluent" who, in my opinion, can barely make themselves understood.
Yes, "foreign fluent" is an excellent suggestion.
I've spoken Spanish for 3/4 of my life [and I am an old lady!! 
], but that doesn't make me "fluent", at least not in my view.
Haha, Iazarus..I LOVED that movie, it's called 'The Fugitive' except that in the movie, he wasn't a lawyer, he was a doctor.
I went to the site that KevinB posted..hmm, quite interesting as how their 'debater/fluent' level, they describe someone that is still able to make a mistake here and there. By my own personal definition, I always viewed fluent as a native speaker who was basically perfect in the language, but here they have these as 2 separate levels.
-Charlius-
And if you finally get to the point of not making mistakes that no native speaker would make, you can (at least if you're studying English) then begin to learn to make the mistakes that huge numbers of native speakers make, lest you sound "foreign" because you speak better than the natives.
forget about "I'm making a fool out of myself", that is the best advice I can give you
This is probably the best advice anyone can give you. Certainly, in answer to such questions as "How can I best utilize the conversational opportunities that come my way?" Not only does the panic/"brain freeze" that some people experience interfere with their own ability to speak, it often causes them to miss what the other(s) is/are saying because they're concentrating on their own problems (either regretting what they've just said or agonizing over how to say their next sentence).
It is also harder, in my opinion, on the interlocutors. I find it easier to (and would rather) listen to someone who makes mistakes but keeps the rhythm of the conversation going than the one who ekes out one word at a time, often with pauses, corrections and "rewrites" along the way. There's enough redundancy in natural languages that a native listener can, without too much effort, understand what is meant despite grammatical errors and some poor choices of vocabulary. Even if you say something completely incomprehensible, there's nothing to prevent your listeners from asking for clarification (provided that you've managed to maintain their interest in the conversation).
I've never heard anyone end a conversation by saying "Your English/Spanish/etc. is so bad that I can't stand listening to you anymore!" I have, however, seen listeners whose eyes glazed over or who started looking for ways to escape from a conversation that dragged on at an excruciatingly slow pace. It is also unlikely (in this 2nd situation) that you'll ever manage to "rope" that person into another conversation.
Better than "average".
