From lost to the river
Has anyone who is not from Spain ever heard of this joke? It is a word-by-word translation of an idiom used in Spain which -I think- is something like "in for a dime, in for a dollar" (or "in for a penny, in for a pound") Someone came up with this sentence to ridicule the silly word-by-word translations we suffer everyday in all languages, when people without a proper understanding of two languages decide to look up one word at a time and produce an aberrant translation that no one understands. Another extreme example is "**** yourself, little parrot", a word by word translation of "Cágate, lorito", a colloquial expression that loosely translates as "Bloody hell!" (or something like that).
Of course, the same joke can be done in reverse: "He cambiado mi mente" (a literal translation for "I've changed my mind", which reads "I have replaced my mind with another one (in my brain)".) There are countless ones, but I won't include them here now.
This forum, unfortunately, is full of people asking for "from-lost-to-the-river" translations. How do I translate "para" into English? How do I translate "lo que" into English? And so on and so forth. For the sake of the people learning Spanish, I'd recommend that we advise them not to use these from-lost-to-the-river translation requests which are useless and counter-productive. The method is wrong; it will never work; it will slow their progress; it will discourage them. It is a waste of time for everyone.
Exaggerating, learning Spanish by asking "how do I say this" in Spanish is as effective as losing 5 stones in one week by having a little bit of celery on top of your 5 whole pizzas.
Vale.
7 Answers
Well, since I'm Spaniard I have heard the joke " from lost to the river" ( I think that there is even a humorous book based entirely on the absurd of this kind of jokes) As I'm Spanish, I probably have not understood great part of the irony that glitters in your message too, and I regret it. You're absolutely right in what you say. Unfortunately, in-depth understanding language requires more than just study. But my oppinion is that who do not ask, do not get help.In other words, a translation word-by-word probably is not much, but it is more than the complete lack of interest. So I will encourage to who, like me, feel sometimes a little frustrated in the attempt.
I'm sorry for my English!!
I like the "from-lost-to-the-river" translations, because they usually make me think of funny or silly replies I would love to give. Sometimes I can't control myself and yield to the impulse. Most often, though, I behave. ![]()
I enjoyed that Lazarus. I almost always find it very amusing when (after much hard work) I am able to discover that a person has just picked any one of the meanings of a word and applied it to the wrong interpretation. It is great to finally get to the 'aha!' moment and think 'oh, thaaaaat's what they meant'. ![]()
I think it might be better for those asking the "how-to-say-this" questions to first evaluate the situation in which a phrase occurs and the feeling they wish to impart on the part of the listener, and then state enough sentences to give context, and then ask the question.
During the Por/Para game I noticed that after many people had grasped the rules, which can many times be confusing, the use of these two words was good but often with Spanish sentences built with English structure - thinking in English while writing/speaking in Spanish. A native Spanish speaker with no knowledge of English will not understand sentences structured this way.
The only way to completely learn a language, and I believe I've mentioned this before, is to live in a country where the language is spoken. This is not always possible obviously, so the next best thing is to search out people who are native Spanish speakers.
I remember one post in which the person said, "I live here in [Spanish speaking country], but I'm afraid to speak with the natives." The pot of gold is at your feet and you're disregarding it. I'm sure there many who would love to be in your position.
Language is not meant to be studied but to be used to communicate. So don't be afraid to make mistakes because you will - and it's OK. The study should always take second place to the usage (practice) of a language.
I am afraid that much of this sailed over my head.
I used the computer to see if I could at least get an idea of what you talking about and was pleased to get back .... without a paddle.
From lost to the river have anything to do with ... Up a **** creek?
There is a program on television here called ... NCIS. One of the characters working with a group of Americans is a young lady supposedly from Israel and she is constantly being corrected because she uses expressions that have been translated word for word. Her mistakes add a great deal to the humor in the show.
In real life, there are a great number of expressions that can be translated word for word, but all of the book learning in the world cannot prepare anyone for being transplanted into a different language when it comes to idioms and dichos and expressions and adages and saws.
I have purchased a couple of dictionaries. Both, and others, are also available on line. What I particularly like about these two, though, is that they almost exclusively try to give illustrating sentences for the various meanings a word can take on ... perhaps I should say, the various translations that a word can require to reflect its meanings. In fact, they list the "meanings" in Spanish, which helps me to extend my vocabulary to still further words.
Here is an example from Harper Collins, the desktop edition: apurar
apurar VT 1 (= agotar) [+ bebida] to drink up
[+ comida] to eat up
[+ provisión, medios] to use up, exhaust, finish off
Apuró hasta la última gota de agua. He drank up the last drop of water.
Apura tu copa, que nos vamos. Drink up, we're going
Apuró la copa hasta el final. He drained the glass
Tenemos que apurar todos los medios para conseguir nuestro objetivo
We have to exhaust all our means to achieve our aim.
Apuró hasta el último momento de sus vacaciones.
He stretched out his holiday until the last moment
2 (= agobiar) to put pressure on, pressurize
Deja que haga lo que pueda sin apurarlo.
Let him do what he can without pressurizing him o putting him under pressure.
No dejes que el trabajo te apure. Don't let your work get on top of you.
Si se me apura, yo diría que es la mejor playa de España. If pushed, I would say that it is the best beach in Spain
3 (= avergonzar) to embarrass me
Apuraba oírla hablar de esa manera. It really embarrassed me to hear her speak like that.
4 (= comprobar)
[+ detalles] to check on
[+ cuestión] to study minutely
[+ misterio] to clear up, get to the bottom of
5 (esp LAm) (= meter prisa) to rush, hurry
¡No me apures! Don't rush o hurry me!
6 (Téc) to purify, refine
VI (Chile) to be urgent Este trabajo le apura mucho. This job is very urgent
Me apura ver al doctor. I have to see the doctor urgently
And different again are the meanings for the pronominal form:
apurarse VPR 1 (= agobiarse) to get upset, worry (por about, over) Se apura por poca cosa. She gets upset o worries about the slightest thing.
¡No te apures, que todo se arreglará!
Don't worry, everything will be all right!
2 (= esforzarse) to make an effort, go hard at it apurarse por hacer algo to strive to do sth
3 (esp LAm) (= apresurarse) to hurry, hurry up ¡apúrate! get a move on!
No te apures. There's no hurry.
One can even use this Spanish verb to talk about shaving. The fourth meaning of the pronominal form is:
4 apurarse la barba (Esp) to have a close shave
© HarperCollins 2009
But beginning learners might not be able to appreciate these differences. Nor will everyone be able to check out several dictionaries and so I suppose we must be patient with each beginner until he or she learns enough and just keep pointing beginners to the good dictionaries.
From lost to the river
Firstly, I apologize for my previous comment (now deleted). I fully understand that you offered the quoted phrase only as an illustration of your main point (the futility/counter-productiveness of attempting word-for-word translations) and, therefor, my comment was "off topic". Since I am entirely in agreement with you on this point, (after thinking, "well, of course") my interest was piqued by your illustrative sentence (as quoted above), an expression with which I was not familiar.
"In for a penny, in for a pound." can be used in reference to further committing oneself to to either good or bad investments. (going "whole hog" or "all the way") and I wonder if that captures the sense of the Spanish expression.
An alternative (which emphasizes only the negative aspects would be "Out of the frying pan, into the fire." Our phrasebook (when going from English to Spanish) offers only a Latin American equivalent.