Using past participles - query

Question

I am a little confused with the use of the past participle "roto" from romper.

I think I am correct in saying that está roto using estar is how to say "it is broken." (I have checked with previous posts)

Could someone please explain why I have seen written "las computadoras fueron rotas" using indefinido of ser for "the computers were broken" changing the verb from estar to ser.

Thinking about it I have a feeling this may be something to do with passive voice, but we don´t cover this in class in Spain and I only know a little from what I have read in grammar books.

Thank you

Answer 1

You can also use the "Passive SE" in this case.

Se rompieron las computadoras. The computers broke.

Answer 2

"Las computadoras fueron rotas" is a very weird sentence, borderline wrong, I'd say. "The computers were broken (by someone unspecified and seemingly on purpose)". It is passive, yes, but it doesn't sound like something a native would say. "Las computadoras estaban rotas" would be a normal sentence for "The computers were broken" (=they didn't work.)

My comment disappeared - thanks I thought fueron sounded wierd too, I got it from a web-site and just wanted to make sure. - caza, Sep 21, 2010

Answer 3

"Las computadoras fueron rotas" is a very weird sentence, borderline wrong,

On the other hand, if you amend it to "Las computadoras fueron rotas por los delincuentes.", it becomes a normal sentence. With the traditional passive construction (fueron rotas) you are talking about the act/action of their being broken. If your not concerned about the agent, then the "Passive SE" is the usual choice but when expressing the agent, your choices become the active (emphasizing the agent) or the full passive construction (emphasizing the "sufferer" [while still mentioning the agent]).

With "Las computadoras estaban rotas" you are, of course, simply talking about their resulting condition (without reference to how they came to be in that condition).

Thanks - I just wanted to make sure I was using correct verb as per your last sentence - caza, Sep 21, 2010

Answer 4

Roto can be used as an adjective, in which case you can say "Algo está roto" to say that something which usually works is not broken.

I believe you can also say "Algo (el sistema, por ejemplo) es roto", to indicate that something is inherently broken.

You are right about "Las computadoras fueron rotas". In this construction of the passive voice the past participle always agrees with the subject.

I hope I'm right about everything! If not, believe me, someone will let us know.

J

Thanks for that - I´m not sure about your first sentence though-please clarify. - caza, Sep 20, 2010