About conjugating levantar.
I am confused! Well, the regulars here already know that but anyway, I have been listening to an audio program called "Learning Spanish Like Crazy" in my truck on my way to and from work. It seems like a decent learning tool but like Rosetta Stone and others it really doesn't address verb usage and conjugation which is where I have the most trouble. Although it is an audio, it does include script as quoted here and I was sure to check it to be sure I was hearing correctly. In this particular segment the instructor tells you what to say and after a short pause, a person (in this case René)repeats the way it should have been correctly stated.
Instructor: ¿Y cómo se dice “All of you get up at eight”? René: Se levantan a las ocho. Ustedes se levantan a las ocho.
This is where I get confused. According to everything I've learned so far, "an" ending are used for the 3rd person plural, and although my grammar is atrocious I'm pretty sure the statement "All of you" is 2nd pp. So, what am I missing here? Thanks
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7 Answers
I would hesitate to call "ustedes" second person formal. It uses third person construction (including pronouns, Q.). It is used in Latin America where the 2nd person (vosotros) would be used in Spain.
It translates to the second person plural in English (identical to the second person singular).
In Spanish classes (for those learning Spanish as a second language) in the US, "ustedes" is taught as being part of the third person plural.
Hi, yesero, I've listened to the same program. It focuses on Latin American Spanish, where the second person plural form is indeed ustedes, the second person formal plural used in Spain. In Spain the second person plural has its own (vosotros) form. But that form is hardly every used in North and South America. Instead the third person plural (ellos and ellas) also serves as second person plural (always ustedes in the Americas).
Yes, it's confusing, but you're not all that confused, and your grasp of grammar is better than you think!
Let me confuse things a little more. Latin America doesn't use 2nd person plural familiar. That is, they don't use vosotros. They use ustedes in both the 2nd person plural formal and familiar situations.
Now, here is the really confusing part: Usted and ustedes aren't 2nd person. Before you get too upset, I will qualify that and say that they are used in 2nd person situations, so you don't have to relearn anything. But it does explain some of the oddness of the pronouns and verb conjugations. Usted is a telescoping of the phrase, Vuestra Merced, or Your Grace. This is a 3rd person expression, which is why we use the 3rd person pronouns and verb conjugations. Subjects don't refer to the nobility in 2nd person, they refer to it in 3rd person, Your Grace or Vuestra Merced.
Anyway, a little historical trivia that will either clear things up or make them really, really muddy.
Yesero,
In our conjugator and dictionary you will see vosotoros listed as 2nd person, plural.
You will not see ustedes listed in place of vosotros which if these verbs were conjugated in Latin America. you would see.
Since second personal, formal, uses 3rd personal endings (same as él, ellas, ellas, ellos) the subject pronoun is often listed in the 3rd person position. Occasionally, you will see it as it should be shown to be more clear (but since it takes more space it isn't shown that way:
AR verb just for an example (hablar)
| 1st person | yo | hablo | nosotros | hablamos |
| 2nd person | vos | hablás | ||
| 2nd person familiar (Spain) | tú | hablas | vosotros | habláis |
| 2nd person familiar (LA)) | tú | hablas | ustedes | hablan |
| 2nd person formal | usted | habla | ustedes | hablan |
| 3rd person | él, ella | habla | ellos, ellas | hablan |
As you can see this takes up a lot more space than the usual tables so you seldom see verbs conjugated this way. Multiply that by all of the tenses and you see why they consolidate the conjugations.
And no one has still answered my question about in LA when you use ustedes for vosotros (2nd person, plural, familiar) do you use os or (se with it as you would if it were formal.)
Also, I didn't fill out what someone that uses voseo would use for the plural form. I am assuming that it would be ustedes hablan, but if someone could confirm that I would appreciate it.
I'm a bit confused by your confusion.
3rd person plural endings is what 2nd person, plural, formal and 2nd, person plural, familiar in Latin America use for their verb endings.
all of you=commonly stated as you all on this site.
Ustedes se levantan a las ocho
Ustedes is 2nd, person, plural, formal and also 2nd, person, plural, familiar in Latin America
I've never been sure which reflexive pronouns Latin Americans use with ustedes when they use it in place of vosotros (os, or se?) I asked once, but did not get an answer. Since they don't use vosotros, does that mean that they also don't use os either?
ustedes=you all (all of you)
Thanks guys, it is all coming together now. I knew the rule for ustedes in Latin American was different than vosostros, or should I say I was aware there was a difference but actually did not know how to conjugate the ending for Lat.A. because I always refer to our SD conjugator. I may not have to go back to square one but I should take a few steps back to try and fully understand these differences. It's hard enough learning the different endings and when I heard levantan on that program it just through me a curve. The problem with those learning tools is they tell what but not why. Q's example above makes sense out of the whole thing . Thanks again!
3rd person plural endings is what 2nd person, plural, formal and 2nd, person plural, familiar in Latin America use for their verb endings
I guess I just never realized that. Back to square one.
