Help with reflexive and pronomial verbs
Hey,
I'm struggling with what seems to be indiscriminate usage of reflexive pronouns...according to the dictionary, lots of verbs can be used as both transitively, reflexively, or pronomially. The second two options require the addition of a pronoun like me, te, se, nos. My problem is with verbs which seem to have very similar meanings in the transitive and reflexive/pronomial uses, and figuring out when and why the pronouns are used. For instance, an example from a tutorial I was reading:
"La procuraduría general de la república esta allegándose información para identificar al autor o autores intelectuales de este asesinato."
The office of the state attorney general is gathering information to identify the intelligence author or authors of this murder.
My question concerns the verb allegar. In this context it means "to gather". But why is there a "se" attached? The dictionary says that it can be used transitively or reflexively, but the transitive meaning is also "to gather". So, are pronouns generally added indiscriminately without much change in meaning, or is the pronoun really needed in this instance. Would the meaning be the same if we said "esta allegando", and if not, how do you know when to use the pronoun? I can understand it either way, but I'm thinking about if I were forming the sentence myself rather than reading.
I'm also not interested so much just in this example, but generally how to know when to add the pronouns, because I see questionable sentences like this all the time.
Thanks.
6 Answers
Now this is good stuff: Well worth the read 
The idea of using se as an intensifier seems to work frequently with this >Prepositional Concept: Comió = He ate it. Se comió = He ate it up.
The 'se' of irse, quedarse, denotes an action as it is happening: usually its onset; sometimes the performance of a punctual action (an action that starts and finishes very quickly). To my knowledge, this meaning is recognized by just one laypeople's grammar: Butt and Benjamin (B&B) /1/.
Many grammar books (e.g., the otherwise very helpful Batchelor and Pountain, Using Spanish, 1992, (B&P)) refer to a 'se' of "emphasis" or "intensification" (section 29.4). They do not define these terms, and with regard to 'caerse', 'irse', etc. the claims are incorrect. The verbs without 'se' consistently refer to the result of an action, while their counterparts with 'se' consistently refer to the commencement or performance of the action. A clear example from B&B:
Los prisioneros se escaparon. "The prisoners escaped" [i.e., they made their escape -- Dale] Los ladrones escaparon a la justicia "The thieves escaped justice" [i.e., does not refer to the moment of getting free of restraints or of a trap]
Butt and Benjamin is now in its 4th ed (2004). I have access to the 2d (1988). They note (sections 12.1, 12.7) that "pronominal verbs of motion" can denote either "accidental or unplanned actions" or "point of departure of a movement".
I argue that the idea of "accidental or unplanned action" ultimately arises from the idea of commencement. This would link Butt and Benjamin's two categories.
The 'se' of commencement sometimes seems to denote instead 'conscious action', 'quedarse' in particular. Verbs with strict 'se' of commencement (as opposed to "accidental action") overwhelmingly have human agents.
Some examples.
'Ir' means 'go', 'irse' means 'take off, set out'.
'sentar' means 'be seated', 'sentarse' means 'sit down', i.e., 'initiate the state of being seated'.
'caer' means fall, but specifically 'land as the conclusion of a fall': cayó de rodillas "he fell to his knees". 'Caerse' means 'fall off' or 'lose one's balance': "¡Cuidado, te vas a caer! "Careful, you're going to fall!" (B&P). Of course, someone who falls off is almost surely to crash into something, but 'caerse' only refers to the commencement.
'quedar' means 'stay put' or 'be located now and for an extended time forward'. 'quedarse' means 'cause oneself to be located now and for an indefinite time hence', often with nuance 'start causing oneself ...'. Example: 'quedarse atrás' means 'drop back' or 'hold back'. From a short story by Fuguet, written in 1990;
"El auto azabache disminuye su velocidad y comienza a quedarse atrás". "The jet black auto reduces its velocity and starts to drop back". (In the story, up to that moment the jet black auto had been maintaining a steady, close distance to the auto in front of it.) Here, the word "begin" (comienza) is used, so that makes us wonder what precisely 'se' of 'quedarse' means. Undoubtedly it has something to do with "agency" (the dropping back is brought about by a conscious act of a human agent); and it may be that "comienza" echoes a nuance of 'se'. We see agency again in, Me quedo en el coche, "I'll stay in the car" [by my conscious activity] (B&P)
Another example from B&B:
Llegamos a Madrid "we arrived in Madrid" [refers to the outcome] Llégate a la tienda de enfrente "pop over to the shop opposite" [seems to combine agency, 'have yourself arrive', and commencement, 'do it now']
I think that you are making much ado about nothing. The allegándose here is merely reflexive. They are gathering the information to themselves; not for you or me or anyone else that would make it transitive rather than reflexive.
Hi I"m not sure about this answer, but from my notes I have that you never use the pronoun before an infinitive. Note that you have two verbs together: esta allegándose, so I think this has something to do with why you add the pronoun at the end of the second verb. Check some of the lessons - I'm sure they mention this somewhere. buen suerte
Hi there, have you had a chance to read this reference work on the subject? Transitive? Reflexive? Pronominal?
I believe the se is referring to the information. Se being the "it". He is gathering IT (information). It seems redundant to speak like this in English but I know they do it in Spanish quite frequently.
Here is a reference article which may be of help to you.
