HomeQ&ANumbers with "and"

Numbers with "and"

4
votes

I am trying to guess if this that I think it is true.

3014- three thousand (and) fourteen. 4,023- four thousand (and) twenty-three 8,003- eight thousand (and) three 8,403- eight thousand four hundred (and) three 7,290- seven thousand two hundred (and) ninety 4,056,458- four million (and) fifty-six thousand four hundred (and) fifty-eight

I think that after "hundred" can go "and". And after "thousand" also can go "and". But if after "thousand" go "hundred", then you cannot use "and" as in 8,403 - 7,290 - 4,056,458. Is that it?.

Thank you, as always.

5067 views
updated NOV 24, 2013
edited by Eddy
posted by nila45

9 Answers

5
votes

Hi Nila

It might help to recognize that when we verbalize numbers, we tend to group them due to the way in which math is taught to us at an early age; that is to say that we usually tend to group them in accordance to their place value, i.e. in multiples of ten. When we do this we are in essence simply reciting a list of numbers in sequential order, from highest to lowest, based on their place value (in a decimal ten system).

Their is one caveat to this in that when a non-zero number occurs in both the tens and units place it is convention (again as an artifact of the way that numbers are usually taught to us) to state these numbers as if they were a single unit (or element of the list). That is to say that for a number like "23," convention dictates that we say "twenty-three" rather than saying something like "two tens and three." Oddly enough, the same effect of naming carries over to the hundredths and tenths place on the right side of the decimal point. For example the number "0.23" is often said as "twenty-three one hundredths" rather than "twenty one hundredths and three tenths" (although, strictly speaking, there would be nothing wrong with saying it this way)

Taking all that into consideration, the rules to follow when writing out numbers are very similar to those used in writing any other type of list. Note, for example, the way in which the following are listed based on the number of elements in each list:

two items


eggs and toast

(1) eggs and (2) toast

203

(1) two hundred and (2) three

223

(1) two hundred and (2) twenty-three

three items


bacon, eggs and toast

(1) bacon, (2) eggs and (3) toast

2,223

(1) two thousand, (2) two hundred and (3) twenty-three

1,000,223

(1) one million, (2) two hundred and (3) twenty-three


I want to illustrate one more thing before moving on to more complex numbers. Examine the way that the following numbers are grouped:

1,523,345,365

523,345,365

345,365

365

Of course this is nothing new to you, but notice the use of commas which occurs when we write numbers out like this. What we are doing is grouping the numbers a second time. Remember the first way that we grouped the numbers was by powers of 10 (i.e. 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106 etc.) Now, a second grouping occurs after every third digit. That is every group of numbers that is separated by a comma is considered to be a separate list item in what is now considered the primary list.

Do you see now that our original list is now regrouped to form a new list (the primary list) in which each element of the list might be comprised of either a single element or two elements (a secondary list). This is where the convention of naming numbers like "23" as a single unit (element) comes in handy because it keep the number of elements in each secondary list to a maximum of two elements. Consider the following (I will highlight each individual list item in the primary list by using a different color as well as numbering them; whereas, each item in the secondary lists will be assigned as either "a" or "b"):

Three elements


523,345,365

(1a)five hundred and (1b) twenty-three million, (2a)three hundred and (2b) forty-five thousand, (3a) three hundred and (3b) sixty-five

23,345,365

(1a)twenty-three million, (2a)three hundred and (2b) forty-five thousand, (3a) three hundred and (3b) sixty-five

3,300,365

(1a)three million, (2a)three hundred thousand, (3a) three hundred and (3b) sixty-five


When a decimal is used, it is often replaced with the word "and" to create a third level to the original list. That is to say now the hierarchy of your list is as follows (1) whole numbers and decimals which can be subdivided into (2) thousands, millions, billions etc and thousandths, millionths, billionths etc, these can further be subdivided into hundreds and units.


323,345.365

(1a)three hundred and (1b) twenty-three thousand, (2a)three hundred and (2b) forty-five and (3a) three hundred and (3b) sixty-five thousandths

323.345365

(1a)three hundred and (1b) twenty-three and (2a)three hundred and (2b) forty-five thousand, (3a) three hundred and (3b) sixty-five millionths


In spoken language (as already suggested by others), for the sake of economy, many of these "ands" are often elided - that is to say, slurred over or struck out completely. Usually, however, the final "and" will be conserved (or at least more than the other "ands") so that when you hear it spoken, a number like "523,345,365" might sound something like

"five hundred and twenty-three million, three hundred and forty-five thousand, three hundred and sixty-five"

or as Gary said

"five hundred 'n' twenty-three million, three hundred 'n' forty-five thousand, three hundred 'nd' sixty-five."

Hopefully, this explanation did not confound things for you by its length. One day I will become succinct and eloquent like Ian and Gary or Samdie and Quentin, but until that time, I hope that this was able to help.

As an aside, It's funny that everyone immediately thinks about money when discussing the use of decimals.

updated NOV 24, 2013
edited by Izanoni1
posted by Izanoni1
Wish you had been my math teacher. - margaretbl, JUN 26, 2010
Hehe...looks like you already got an answer. I guess that's what I get for eating lunch in the middle of posting an answer :) - Izanoni1, JUN 26, 2010
:) - pintor, JUN 26, 2010
Well said, Izan. I never thought about comparing it to other lists. Definitely a helpful way of viewing our habit. - webdunce, JUN 26, 2010
2
votes

Technically, the "and" should correspond only with the decimal point.

$542.83 = five hundred forty-two dollars and eighty-three cents.

However, in the southeastern USA, where I live, almost everybody says "and" after the hundreds (regardless of how big the number is).

$643.95 would be said (where I live) as six hundred and forty-three dollars and ninety-five cents.

2503 = two thousand five hundred and three

14,589 = fourteen thousand five hundred and eighty-nine.

I don't know if this is common in other English-speaking countries or not.

But it is apparently considered uneducated and, thus, all my teachers tried to teach us not to speak that way but we all did it any way. But, to be sure, at least in my area it is not frowned upon by even educated people to hear it said that way. However, I would never write it that way in a formal paper. It would definitely get red marks in a paper. grin

updated JUN 26, 2010
edited by webdunce
posted by webdunce
1
vote

On checks in the USA when you write the amount in letters there is typically an & or and between the dollars and the cents. Such as Fourhundredfifty & 38/100 dollars or $450.38.

updated JUN 26, 2010
edited by jake2
posted by jake2
1
vote

I have just found this in a page. It seems to be a good piece of information and you can see the difference between Bristish and American English in the use of "and".

NUMBERS IN ENGLISH – ABOUT.COM

When expressing large numbers (more than one hundred) read in groups of hundreds. The order is as follows: billion, million, thousand, hundred. Notice that hundred, thousand, etc. is NOT followed by an ‘s’.

Two hundred NOT two hundreds

NOTE: British English takes 'and' between 'hundred and ...' American English omits 'and'. In the examples below, this is represented: (AND)

Hundreds

350 – three hundred (AND) fifty 425 – four hundred (AND) twenty five

Thousands

15,560 – fifteen thousand five hundred (AND) sixty 786,450 – seven hundred (AND) six thousand four hundred (AND) fifty

Millions

2,450,000 – two million four hundred (AND) fifty thousands 234,700,000 – two hundred (AND) thirty-four million seven hundred thousand

Speaking About Numbers

Numbers are read in the following manner in English:

million, thousand, hundred

Example:

2,350,400 => two million three hundred (AND) fifty thousand four hundred

NOTE - Remember: Use ‘and’ only between hundreds in British English. American English leaves the ‘and’ out.

Decimals

Read decimals as the given number point XYZ

2.36=>two point three six

updated JUN 26, 2010
posted by nila45
Excellent research! I'm making a copy. ¡Una investigación excelente! Hago una copia de esto. - Delores--Lindsey, JUN 26, 2010
1
vote

Here in New England we have a bad habit of using and but actually shortening it to n. Say this to yourself - five hundred n fifty two. So here is a definite problem. We are using a word that may not even belong there but we're too lazy to say the entire word. I think it is a psychological thing. It really doesn't sound right saying this word to its full extent so we compromise. I have never heard anyone say five hundred and fifty two, if you understand what I'm trying to say.

updated JUN 26, 2010
posted by Yeser007
In Engalnd we would say "five hundred and fifty two" but "one thousnd five hundred and (or 'n) fifty two. - ian-hill, JUN 26, 2010
1
vote

314 - three hundred fourteen ( This is how I would say it (Así diría yo), but three hundred and fourteen is OK)

4,023 - Again, I wouldn't use the "and."

You are correct in saying that there is no "and" between thousands and hundreds.

Also, I would not use it between "million" and "thousand."

I guess that you need to wait for a math teacher or an English teacher.

Probablemente sería mejor esperar a un profesor de mátamaticas o un profesor de inglés. (Y favor de corrija mi espa!nol.)

smile

updated JUN 26, 2010
posted by Delores--Lindsey
Intenté de cambiar la palabra "matemáticas" pero el sistema no me permitió que entrara. - Delores--Lindsey, JUN 26, 2010
favor de corregir - Delores--Lindsey, JUN 26, 2010
Perhaps you mean: haz el favor de corregir mi español - por favor, corrija mi español - nila45, JUN 26, 2010
Gracias, Nila. - Delores--Lindsey, JUN 26, 2010
0
votes

Delores said:

4,023 - Again, I wouldn't use the "and."

Do you mean you wouldn't use the "and" in this number or perhaps you mean that it cannot be used here?

updated JUN 26, 2010
posted by nila45
For what it is worth, I would say four thousand and twenty-three. :) I think everyone where I'm from says it that way. - webdunce, JUN 26, 2010
0
votes

I meant that I would not use it because it sounds strange to me. I have tried to find the "rules" for reading these large numbers in English, but I have not found anything.

Quería decir que personalmente no lo usaría. Me suena extraño. He intentado encontrar algo en la red que discuta este sujeto, pero no he encontrado nada. Si encuentro algo, le diría.

updated JUN 26, 2010
posted by Delores--Lindsey
.... algo en la red que trate (sobre) este asunto. - nila45, JUN 26, 2010
Gracias! - Delores--Lindsey, JUN 26, 2010
0
votes

9,456 (I would say: Nine-thousand four hundred and fifty-six

updated JUN 26, 2010
posted by princessjane
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