El Voseo and vosotros... Driving me nuts!
I understand the basics of both... and to my understanding there is a "modern" voseo, and an "old" voseo...
- The modern
Vos sos, comés, bailás, ect...
- The old (conjugated just like vosotros...)-
Vos sois, coméis, bailáis, ect...
Also in the old voseo "os" was used as we now use "te"... for example-
Quiero veros or os lo ruego
1.) I have no idea how one would give commands with the old voseo to the person you refer to as "os". I know with the modern you use "vos" as we use "tú, ti, and contigo" and use the commands like "mirá" or "bailá". Does anyone know how to do this?
2.) Also, in poetry I see the commands "miráme" or "habláme" with the accent marks, and everyone says that is incorrect, but I see various writers doing it. Why is this?
3.) I was reading my book by Quevedo and I see he uses the words like "llámasme". It is not a mistake in the book or a typo. Is this some form of Castallano antiguo?
4.) My last question is- Were the voseo and vosotros ever use together? I would think since at one point they both were conjugated the same and used "os", it would be a bit confusing.
If you can answer any of my questions, the help will be greatly appreciated.
12 Answers
You have literature that uses the old vos form? Could it be that it is exactly like modern vosotros in every respect except the subject pronoun now is vosotros? If so, the commands would still be formed by replacing -r with -d (and dropping the -d in reflexive verbs).
Possible reflexive verb commands with old vos form: acostaos (acostarse) or bebéos (beberse).
Just speculating.
I'm glad you found your answers, because you totally lost me. Would you answer this question again if you have already?
In the Latin American countries, where the indicative vosotros form is not used, what do they use for the affirmative, 2nd person, informal, plural, commands? Do they use Spain's vosotros command (ending in the d; "hablad") or do they use the affirmative, 2nd, person formal, plural (ustedes, "hablen") command?
I'm just referring just to the commands. I know how the indicative mood is used. It's hard to find examples, because most sites ignore the voseo, and those that don't ignore it, only speak about the informal, 2nd person, singular, vos commands or they show the vosotros commands for Spain and never mention what the countries use that don't use the indicative vosotros form.
Happy to say I found all the asnwers out. I sent a request for help in espanglish chat, and got one reply. Within minutes this person answered every question that I had.
The ancient "vos" is exactly the same as "vosotros" in all execpt the pronoun like webdunce said.
And about the "llámasme"... It is just like me llamas, but some writers combined verbs with object pronouns is odd ways, perhaps it sounded better, or it helped them with syllables.
If so, the commands would still be formed by replacing -r with -d (and dropping the -d in reflexive verbs).
But I was taught that you can still say "miradme" or "habladme",.. correct?
Oh, just to let you know, French currently does the opposite. They use the 2 person plural (vous) also as a 2nd person singular for formal purposes. So, no, I doubt it was confusing to the people who first started using vos as a familiar 2nd person singular form.
Consider that we use exactly the same form for 2nd person (singular and plural, formal and familiar). This was not always the case. In the past, English 2nd person singular was (Thou, thee, thy, thine) and 2nd person plural was (ye, you, your, yours). Formal appeared to be accomplished by sometimes referring to oneself in the third person.
I have a part of a poem-
Si decís que está velando cuando vos estáis durmiendo, ¿quién duda que estáis oyendo a quien os canta llorando?
Yes, I was talking with a friend from Spain which told me this. I also see it being used in some literature. I am not looking to learn the voseo which they use in Argentina.
I guess the question that I really want to know is when using "os" as "te".... how would you command that person? I know that it was conjugated the same as vosotros, so would you say "mirad" or "hablad"?
No, sorry, I am referring to "vos" ... and I am not only interested in vosotros.
Perhaps I am wrong, but, so far as I know, vos IS the Argentinian method and vos's forms are used instead of tú -- that is to say, vos is ONLY for 2nd person familiar SINGULAR.
when using "os" as "tú"
I think you mean te, but, so far as I know, os is never used as te -- at least not in modern usage.
You might like this wiki article on voseo, which does confirm your statement that modern voseo started off as the second person plural, which was later changed to vosotros to differentiate the two.
If you are not inquiring about the Argentinian way, then you can eliminate voseo completely from your question. You are interested only in vosotros (in that case), which is only used for 2nd person familiar PLURAL (i.e., you are addressing a group of people...a teacher addressing a class in Spain would likely use the vosotros form to address her students when she is address 2 or more at the same time).
Vostros commands can be got generally by dropping the final -r from the infinitive and placing a -d in it's place. In pronomial commands (where the os is actually part of the command), the final -d is dropped.
acostar (put to bed) => acostad /ah-koh-STAHD/
acostarse (go to bed) => acostaos /ah-koh-STAH-ohs/
Any verb you look up in the conjugation tool here at SD.com will include the vosotros command form (but NOT the vos command form) down in the imperative section.
From a forum conversation...
antiguo "vos" español: "Habeís vos hecho tales insolencias" mientras que los otros son una deformación del primero.
From an article...
Voseo reverencial
En el voseo reverencial se utilizaba el pronombre vos para el sujeto (vos miráis), tornándose en os en los casos en que el pronombre cumple la función gramatical de complemento (os mentiría, os veo).
From Yahoo! Answes-
Soy argentina. El voseo nuestro es una "deformación" por llamarla de alguna forma, del "voseo antiguo" de España.
Por ejemplo, antiguamente en lugar de decir "usted es", los españoles decían "vos sois". (RESPETUOSAMENTE)
delete-thought better of it
There's an old and a new?
I never heard that; maybe this is true. However, "vosotros" is the second person plural used in Spain and the "voseo" or the "vos" form is the second person singular in Argentina and several other regions in Latin America. To my knowledge, these are two completely different pronouns, referring to two completely different groups of people.
In a nutshell: the "voseo" (the second person singular used in Argentina) forms its verbs by using the "vosotros forms (the second person plural used in Spain); several examples follow.
For -ar verbs in the present indicative
Vosotros bailáis - vos bailás.......Vosotros habláis - vos hablás (drop the "i" from the vosotros form)
For er verbs in the present indicative
Vosotros coméis - vos comés.....Vosotros bebéis - vos bebés (drop the "i" from the vosotros form)
For -ir verbs in the present indicative Vosotros salís - vos salís...Vosotros vivís - vos vivís (same form)
For command forms, for -ar, -er, ir:
Vosotros hablad - vos hablá...Vosotros comed - vos comé...vosotros vivid - vos viví (drop the -"d"). Thus "habláme" is correct with the "vos" form.
It would be helpful for you to review the "vosotros" forms, which are considered to be "standard" Spanish.
I didn't know there was an old and new to this 
But all there is to know, i guess, you can find here, our great Benz, from Argentina, should know what she is talking about
