HomeQ&AAtrocities in Mexico.

Atrocities in Mexico.

2
votes

Afterall, the Arizona immigration law might not be such a bad idea.

In the news:

CANCUN, Mexico - Police discovered six dead bodies in a cavern near the tourist resort of Cancun on Sunday, three of them cut open and their hearts removed. Authorities are investigating the identities of the four men and two women found dead in the natural cave, said Francisco Alor, the Quintana Roo state attorney general. "They were apparently tortured and their chests were opened to remove the hearts," Alor's office said later in a statement.

The full article

4626 views
updated JUN 7, 2010
edited by Eddy
posted by sfrenchie
I changed the catagory to gen. disc. - alba3, JUN 7, 2010
I flagged this post because of the title..that's disgusting and disrespectful to the victims. - --Mariana--, JUN 7, 2010
I agree with you Marianne. - Nicole-B, JUN 7, 2010
Thanks for the change in title Frenchie. - Nicole-B, JUN 7, 2010
Absolutely, I know when I make mistakes and I am not ashamed to admit it. - sfrenchie, JUN 7, 2010
Frenchi, think before you post!! - 00494d19, JUN 7, 2010

19 Answers

9
votes

Afterall, the Arizona immigration law might not be such a bad idea...

I don't believe that the horrible things done to these victims should be an indictment on all Mexican people. In addition, it really has nothing to do with the immigration law in Arizona.

Anyone in Mexico can watch the news or read a U.S. paper and see countless crimes and atrocities committed by Americans. If we don't want to be lumped in with horrible people in our country, you can bet the majority of Mexicans, who are great people, feel the same way.

I have spent a lot of time in the state of Quintana Roo and have always felt very safe there.

updated JUN 7, 2010
edited by Nicole-B
posted by Nicole-B
Thanks you Nicole, nicely put. :D - galsally, JUN 7, 2010
Nicole - it was not an indictment on all Mexicans. - ian-hill, JUN 7, 2010
I was making the correlation between the article and the Arizona law. Just because of this particular horrendous act, I don't think that honest, hardworking Mexicans in Arizona should have to suffer the consequences. - Nicole-B, JUN 7, 2010
They suffer less than Americans living in other countries because of US government decisons. They are targetted by assasines. - ian-hill, JUN 7, 2010
I'm sure that is true, but should we mistreat foreigners because Americans are treated poorly in other countries? - Nicole-B, JUN 7, 2010
2
votes

I like the way sfrenchie thinks he is a very caring and sensitive person with only the best motives , I applaud him for what he wishes to do in waking people up to injustice and inequality. I love you my dear friend but I do not think that this is the right venue for airing this particular subject at this time ,it is too sensitive and important an issue to be trivialized in this fashion. But thank you for your good mind and kind heart,.

updated JUN 7, 2010
posted by ray76
thanks Ray.Nicely put.Some topics are best addressed in serious venues. - nizhoni1, JUN 7, 2010
2
votes

Engraved on a bronze plaque and contained inside of the Statue of Liberty:

The New Colossus

By Emma Lazarus, 1883

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

updated JUN 7, 2010
posted by Izanoni1
Indeed very noble Iza - but written in another age - and made no reference to illegal immigrants. - ian-hill, JUN 7, 2010
This is very moving, especially when thinking of relatives who left all behind, hopped on a cramped, uncomfortable boat and risked all for the next generation. - Nicole-B, JUN 7, 2010
2
votes

There are good and bad Americans. There are good and bad immigrants. Do we have the infrastructure to deal with the bad Americans? Barely. Do we have the infrastructure to deal with the bad illegal immigrants? Absolutely not; In most cases they are simply sent back to their country of origin. Do we track their criminal activities? The answer is "No". So basically we are defenseless?

The real questions is: is the situation going to improve if we don't take extreme measures? I wish there were a way to open our doors to only the good people but let's not dream. I also wish the Arizona law was not abused by some of the police, but there again it's wishful thinking.

Now here are some statistic that to me qualify for "outreagous". They are only the tip of the iceberg since a lot of crimes are not reported.

•In Los Angeles, 95% of some 1,500 outstanding warrants for homicides are for illegal aliens. About 67% of the 17,000 outstanding fugitive felony warrants are for illegal aliens.

•There are currently over 400,000 unaccounted for illegal alien criminals with outstanding deportation orders. At least one fourth of these are hard core criminals.

•80,000 to 100,000 illegal aliens who have been convicted of serious crimes are walking the streets. Based on studies they will commit an average of 13 serious crimes per perpetrator.

•Illegal aliens are involved in criminal activities at a rate that is 2-5 times their representative proportion of the population.

•In 1980, our Federal and state facilities held fewer than 9,000 criminal aliens but at the end of 2003, approximately 267,000 illegal aliens were incarcerated in U.S. correctional facilities at a cost of about $6.8 billion per year.

•At least 4.5 million pounds of cocaine with a street value of at least $72 billion is smuggled across the southern border every year. ..

•56% of illegal aliens charged with a reentry offense had previously been convicted on at least 5 prior occasions.

•Illegal aliens charged with unlawful reentry had the most extensive criminal histories. 90% had been previously arrested. Of those with a prior arrest, 50% had been arrested for violent or drug-related felonies.

•Illegal aliens commit between 700,000 to 1,289,000 or more crimes per year.

•Illegal aliens commit at least 2,158 murders each year – a number that represents three times greater participation than their proportion of the population.

•Illegal alien sexual predators commit an estimated 130,909 sexual crimes each year. •There may be as many as 240,000 illegal alien sex offenders circulating throughout America. Based on studies, they will commit an average of 8 sex crimes per perpetrator before being caught.

•Nearly 63% of illegal alien sex offenders had been deported on another offense prior to committing the sex crime.

•Only 2% of the illegal alien sex offenders in one study had no history of criminal behavior, beyond crossing the border illegally.

•In Operation Predator, ICE arrested and deported 6,085 illegal alien pedophiles. Some studies suggest each pedophile molests average of 148 children. If so, that could be as many as 900,580 victims.

•Nobody knows how big the Sex Slave problem is but it is enormous.

•The very brutal MS-13 gang has over 15,000 members and associates in at least 115 different cliques in 33 states.

•The overall financial impact of illegal alien crimes is estimated at between $14.4 and $81 billion or more per year. Factor in the crime as a result of the cocaine and other drugs being smuggled in and the number may reach $150 billion per year.

Still think illegal immigration is a "victimless crime" and we don't need to control our borders? Remember, about 60% of the crimes being committed are by illegal aliens who were previously deported.

updated JUN 7, 2010
posted by sfrenchie
I agree 1,000 percent (if that were possible) that this is a major problem. The truth is we have illegal immigrants from all over the world enjoying the American dream. - Nicole-B, JUN 7, 2010
I really believe the Arizona law was drafted out of a state of absolute helplessness. So many unfulfilled promises have been made to the state of Arizona alone, concerning protecting the Mexican border. I really just wish this could be resolved. - Nicole-B, JUN 7, 2010
2
votes

I have family living in Mexico and I travel to Mexico at least three times a year. I will also say that I have been more fearful for my life in Chicago and Atlanta then during any of my visits to Mexico. The media blows the violence out of proportion and only adds to a negative and unfounded stereo type. Go visit Mexico and have a great time.

updated JUN 7, 2010
posted by HavingFun
I agree with this. In Quintana Roo, there is always a very visible police presence. But then I always have to return home to Philadelphia, the murder capital of the U.S. and reality sets in. - Nicole-B, JUN 7, 2010
My daughter just returned from Jordan. So many friends and family members thought we were crazy for allowing her to go. She reported that she felt safer there than in the U.S. - Nicole-B, JUN 7, 2010
This is the same girl who returned from the epicenter of the swine flue in Mexico, the very week it broke out. Maybe she just has nine lives...who knows. - Nicole-B, JUN 7, 2010
2
votes

Frenchie, I find your title to be very offensive and insensitive to the tragedy these victims suffered.

Moreover, to suggest that the Arizona law should be used to keep Mexicans out of the U.S. is outrageous.

updated JUN 7, 2010
posted by --Mariana--
It is not used to keep all Mexicans out of Arizona - just the illegal ones. - ian-hill, JUN 7, 2010
Yes, but as things stand now, the potential for abuse of this law is great. I know this is a whole other argument, but perhaps if there was better border control to begin with, this wouldn't be as much of an issue. - Nicole-B, JUN 7, 2010
1
vote

It is merely a case of treating the symptom and not getting rid of the disease or even similar to pulling weeds, while leaving the roots in tact.

I agree. We have a track record of doing just that. In another thread, some time back, I wrote:

This 'problem' was supposed to be 'fixed' with the last immigration 'reform' bill passed in 1986. For the last 25 years that law hasn't been enforced, and what we (the legals) have done is create a problem that we don't know what to do with it. Since 1986, it's been illegal for corporations of the US to hire illegal (or undocumented) workers, yet, they did it anyway, and the government looked the other way. For 25 years we have 'winked' at the problem, thinking it would go away like magic, but it didn't. For a quarter of a century, during a time of unparalleled prosperity, corporate farmers, major hotel chains, restaurants and service businesses have been hiring illegals and getting away with it. Now, all of a sudden, we're going to enforce the law. It's easy to say "well, they're illegal and they shouldn't be here", but considering that the US created the problem (corporate/private sector and government), and did nothing to fix it, we have some responsibility in this too.

There is a couple at church, married with two daughters who were born here. I wonder what would happen to them if some people who say "send all the illegals back" had their way. Would the government split up this family and leave the daughters here (who are American citizens) or would they deport two American citizens (the daughters) along with their parents? That boggles my mind. In regard to the previous paragraph, this couple has been here in the US 14 years, not even a parking ticket. He is working for a 5 star resort, and he pays taxes, and he's as illegal as you can get. I have no idea how these companies do it, but they do. What is the answer to a situation like this? In my mind, this makes the situation much more difficult to solve.

updated JUN 7, 2010
edited by Jack-OBrien
posted by Jack-OBrien
1
vote

I do see your point Ian:

Targetted - proved legal - then what? nothing. - ian-hill 2 hrs ago flag

I know this is not the absolute worse thing that could happen to a person. But to make an analogy, suppose you went to a lot of trouble, expense and sacrifice to stay at a nice hotel. It had been your dream to stay at this hotel for years. However, for some reason, the hotel had not put the proper locks in place in any of the rooms or even to the main entrance.

Now it just so happens that several white, British men had been robbing the hotel and causing all sorts of trouble. Although you fit that profile, you are an innocent, upstanding man who would never disturb a soul.

After all of the dreaming, planning, work and sacrifice you had endured to be able to stay at this hotel, would you appreciate it if you were constantly being harassed by security, pulled to the side to be questioned in front of everyone, just because the hotel had failed to properly secure their property.

I know it is not a very good analogy, but I am at a loss for how else to explain my thoughts. I hope you don't mind. smile

updated JUN 7, 2010
posted by Nicole-B
1
vote

Hi sfrenchie

I did not see the offensive title.

However I agree with you that border controls are needed.

It also seems to me in Bolivia that some of the people here have different attitudes to life. Very often we hear of murders commited here because some people think they can take the law into there own hands. Even the new consitution says that indigenous people have the right to do this !!! Recently 4 policemen investigating illegal attivities were murdered. Those responsible refused to hand over the bodies unless they were granted immunity from procecution !! The president said that the neither the military nor the police would be involved in arresting the murderers. If they were to enter the USA they would take the same attitudes with them.

Illegal immigrants are by definition "invisible" and in my opinion therefore "dangerous".

I don't accept that illegal immigrants have the same rights as other people.

updated JUN 7, 2010
edited by ian-hill
posted by ian-hill
I agree with you there Ian. Illegal immigrants should never share the same rights. Unfortunately, with the Arizona law, many innocent legal immigrants are going to be targeted based on skin color. - Nicole-B, JUN 7, 2010
Targetted - proved legal - then what? nothing. - ian-hill, JUN 7, 2010
1
vote

sadly, sounds more like organ traffic to me... downer

updated JUN 7, 2010
posted by Miss_Ati
0
votes

I can see this topic moves a lot of emotions-

Frenchie, please think before you post next time.

This thread has been flagged several times. As it offends more than one member, I am closing it.

updated JUN 7, 2010
posted by 00494d19
0
votes

Please read the actual Arizona bill here and please refer me to the part(s) that are 'Nazi' in nature.

have such mixed emotions about all of this, I have to be careful. 85% of the members of my church are illegal, and I'm right in the middle of the "two sides to every story". - Jack-OBrien 3 mins ago flag

I agree that this does not even come close to a description of the Nazi movement. It is merely a case of treating the symptom and not getting rid of the disease or even similar to pulling weeds, while leaving the roots in tact.

It is a very emotional and controversial topic. Just as a balance to the Arizona law, here is an article about how many police chiefs (those on the front lines) feel about this law.

Police chiefs weigh in

updated JUN 7, 2010
edited by Nicole-B
posted by Nicole-B
0
votes

I can't believe anyone can use this tragedy to support the Arizona inmigration law wich reminds me of nothing but a period that no one wants to see repeating itself: the Nazi regime.

updated JUN 7, 2010
posted by julianPdC
Nothing like the Nazi regime - read your history. - ian-hill, JUN 7, 2010
Estoy de acuerdo. - Nicole-B, JUN 7, 2010
0
votes

Philadelphia, the so-called murder capital of the US, has a murder rate around 1 person a day, more or less. There were 305 murders in Philly in 2009 according to police reports. Last year in Mexico, there were 8,928 murders that the Mexican government attributes to Calderon's drug war, most of those murdered being in border towns. For example, in 2009, there were 2,626 murders in Juarez Mexico alone.

Mexico's murders per capita is 0.130213 per 1,000 people (13,144 murders), #6 in the world. In the United States, the murder rate is 0.042802 per 1,000 people (16,204 murders), or #24 in the world. The United States and Mexico are #5 and #6 in the world, respectively, in the number of murders. The murder rate in the US is 1/3 of what it is in Mexico.

Arizona is desperately trying to stop the drug war spillover, so they copied the Federal law (Section 287(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, in particular) and crafted their own.

updated JUN 7, 2010
posted by Jack-OBrien
Jack, I was merely trying to get my point across that danger lurks everywhere. I know so many people who miss out on great cultural and travel experiences because of what they see in the media. - Nicole-B, JUN 7, 2010
I do understand that statistically, more kidnappings and murders occur in Mexico (especially in the border towns). I was just trying to convey the thought that I have never felt the least bit threatened in Mexico. - Nicole-B, JUN 7, 2010
and believe me, I do understand your sentiments. However, people that live in these border towns do *NOT* feel safe, because they live where it's happening. - Jack-OBrien, JUN 7, 2010
I have such mixed emotions about all of this, I have to be careful. 85% of the members of my church are illegal, and I'm right in the middle of the "two sides to every story". - Jack-OBrien, JUN 7, 2010
0
votes

julianPdC wrote:

I can't believe anyone can use this tragedy to support the Arizona inmigration law wich reminds me of nothing but a period that no one wants to see repeating itself: the Nazi regime.

Please read the actual Arizona bill here and please refer me to the part(s) that are 'Nazi' in nature. The text of Section 287(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act is part of a Federal law that authorizes Federal enforcement 'partnerships' with local and state police agencies to do the exact same thing that the Arizona law does.

The very things that many would accuse Arizona law enforcement of doing (in future) are prohibited in the text of the Arizona law. Does anyone know how to say "probable cause"? Probable cause has been defined by the Supreme Court of the United States, so there is very little leeway for Arizona law enforcement.

updated JUN 7, 2010
posted by Jack-OBrien
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