Nominative pronouns in English
I've noticed some Spanish sentences that use objective pronouns that would be nominative in English.
"¿Hay estudiantes aquí? Sí, los hay."
In English, "Yes, there are." would mean something like "Yes, they are there."
It looks as if Spanish uses 'los' as the object of the verb in a broader way than we do in English.;
Similarly, "¿Son sabrosos estos melones? Sí, los son."
In English, we would say "Yes, they are (tasty)."
If I see a group photograph and point to an image while asking "¿Quíen es ella?, the answer might be "Marta es ella."
In the first example, what I call functor 'there' is treated as the subject of the sentence (or, there is no subject) in Spanish taking the object 'los', whereas English would require a nominative pronoun as the subject. The second example is similar in Spanish, but requires a nominative pronoun as a predicate nominative (or predicate complement) of the copulative verb in English. In the third example, Spanish uses a nominative pronoun just as English would.
Could someone tell me if my examples are correct and my analysis is reasonable, and help dispel my confusion.
Thanks.
12 Answers
¿Son sabrosos estos melones? Sí, los son."
This is not correct.
Sí lo son. Sí (los melones) lo (sabrosos) son.
Oh ok, I've thought about it some more and I think I'm getting it:
The question was: Are the melons tasty?
so in spanish the answer would be more like:
Yes, they are 'that' - referring to the tastiness!
(Rather than meaning that 'they are' because the 'son' serves that purpose)
Well that's a rather convoluted way to say what i wanted but I'm having a 'yay' moment, please someone tell me that's right 
I am not sure if la / las can work similarly...as in La noche está tranquila. Sí, la está ... where la would refer back to tranquila...I'd love to get clarification on that from a native. It makes sense, though.
If you refer back to an adjective, like in the mistake above, it is lo.
so your sentence would be:
La noche está tranquila, sí, lo está.
delete-No longer pertinent.
Hi jlupine.
Good questions.
First, in Spanish, the subject pronouns can so easily be assumed from the verb's conjugation that the subject pronouns are usually NOT used. Subject pronouns are used only when it is desirable to emphasize the subject or to clarify in cases were the verb conjugation AND context AND tone of voice is not enough to make it clear...and a few other situations.
Second, in Spanish, object pronouns usually PRECEDE the verb. Since the subject pronouns are usually NOT used and since the object pronouns precede the verb, this can often make it seem like Spanish is using the object pronouns as subjects (if you are trying to view the Spanish through English patterns). However, Spanish NEVER uses object pronouns for subjects.
Third, while hay is used similarly to our there, it does not exactly equate our there. Hay means it has. So, los hay means it has them and properly takes the object los for them, but it has them sounds weird in English so we say there are.
Fourth, lo and los can refer back to an adjective or adverb. That is to say they can be pronouns for non-nouns. Hah. That is not possible in English. In your example ¿Son sabrosos estos melones? Sí, los son. The los is referring to sabrosos. The sí, los son literally means yes, that they are where los = that = tasty. (we actually sometimes say that they are with this very intent in mind...that is, to use that to refer back to an adjective). If the adjective / adverb had been in singular, then lo would be used. (Actually, read heidita's comments about this...apparently it is always singular). Remember the they is built into the verb son, and, thus did not need to be stated.
I am not sure if la / las can work similarly...as in La noche está tranquila. Sí, la está ... where la would refer back to tranquila...I'd love to get clarification on that from a native. It makes sense, though.
Hope this helps.
@qfreed, I was going to say the same thing:
in Spanish, object pronouns always PRECEDE the verb...ALWAYS. "Webdunce"
"You can choose where to place the object pronoun in certain situations. In sentences with two verbs that follow one subject or in sentences with a gerund, you have the choice of placing the object pronoun before the conjugated verb or after it, attached to the infinitive or gerund.
When you attach the pronoun to the gerund, an accent is required on the stressed vowel. In general, to correctly place the accent, you count back three vowels and add the accent. Also, remember that negatives go before the pronoun when it precedes the verb. So the sentence No lo estoy haciendo (I’m not doing it) becomes No estoy haciéndolo (I’m not doing it). To attach the pronoun to the infinitive, simply tag it on the end, as in Quiero hacerlo (I want to do it).
......
In a negative command, the object pronoun precedes the verb: No la prepare (Don’t prepare it.)
In an affirmative command, however, the object pronoun must follow the verb and be attached to it."
Excerpts taken fro the following site:
This article may help
Here's an excerpt regarding when to use 'lo'
With ser and estar to refer to a preceding noun or adjective: This is especially common when answering questions: —¿Es nueva tu computadora?. —No lo es. "Is your computer new?" "It isn't." —¿Estaban felices?. —Sí, lo están. "Were they happy?" "Yes they were."
Although if someone could provide a bit more of an explanation I also would be grateful as I haven't quite got my head around the concept either.
I guess because i think of the 'lo', 'la' etc meaning' it' - referring to the noun rather than the adjective. Is that incorrect?
I know that 'lo' is the neuter article and is used for abstract ideas or to make an adjective act like a noun (lo bueno: the good thing) - but in the above example is it because 'tasty' is a quality that i guess could be abstract???
Hmmm I probably better i stop before I tie myself in knots and let a real expert help us
This article may help
Using lo
I like this article very much, thanks Maria-Claire, did anyone notice there's an odd little phrase just here...
Mi religion no lo prohibe, pero cada vez que lo hago, le doy las gracias al animal por darme vida. My religion doesn't prohibit it, but every time I do it, I give thanks to the animal for giving me live.
Not sure exactly how that should be translated in English!
In "Sí, los hay.", 'los' is the object of the verb. Is there the subject of the sentence? Is it because the is part of 'hay' isn't copulative in Spanish the way that 'is' as the main verb always is in English?
The second example might have been better as "¿Son halcones aquellos? Sí, los son." 'los' is again the object of the verb, probably an accusative, whereas English would require a predicate nominative.
'ella' can be objective only in prepositional phrases; otherwise it's nominative. In "Marta es ella", it's a predicate nominative, just as it would be in English.
It's odd to me that 'ser', used in the same sense, can take either a nominative or objective pronoun as its complement.
Sometimes the noun may be omitted in Spanish.
¿De cuál chica hablas? Which girl are you talking about?
La (chica) que lleva el vestido rojo. The girl that is wearing the red dress.
La que lleva el vestido rojo. The (one) that is wearing the red dress.
¿Hay estudiantes aquí? Are there students here?
Sí, los hay.
Remember that "hay" is a construction of its own. Hay = There is, There are
It contains no subject in and of itself.
Hope this helps at least a small bit.
Please delete.
re-reading, I don't think that it addressed your point.
Thanks. It never occurred to me that 'los' in my examples could be the article remaining after truncating the noun from the noun phrase. As you said, 'hay' is a unique idiomatic construction. One of the sources of my confusion is that I would say "Hay los estudiantes aquí." or "Hay estudiantes aquí." but never "Los estudiantes hay aquí." Thus, the syntactic inversion of "Los (estudiantes) hay aquí." sounds strange to me.
