Learning a language: Reaching the Point of No Return
I've often thought about reaching, "The Point of No Return" - llegar al punto sin retorno - in my acquisition of Spanish. What I mean by that is to reach a point where the language is forever mine- it has become such a part of me, and I can make enough use of it that I will constantly reinforce it, reading and listening to whatever I can.
I was reading something last night at a site that I felt was very encouraging, and it really struck a chord with me:
So over time, if you desire fluency, you want to work towards 4000 words or more. But here is the crucial thing: when you are somewhere between 1000 and 2000, you have become an “Insider”. The natives will let you listen in on their conversations as one of them, instead of using English with you. And at this level, 1000 to 2000 words, you can read normal books and newspapers. You won’t understand all of what you hear and read at this level, but you get the gist of it. You can follow along. You get meaning and fun out of it. So that is the important level to attain as fast as possible! Once you get there, your motivation to use and strengthen that language is forever yours. Give up before that level, and you will never know what you missed out on. -- *Ray Vetne, Lingua Guide "Secret Recipe"
For what it's worth, we get about 1200 vocabulary words in the 60 lessons of "Learn Spanish" on this site. Most of us also learn from other sources, so we have memorized countless others.
While I know I have many miles to go to learn to communicate effectively en español, I do feel that I've reached a point that there is no turning back. I will never ever give up on this language. To me, this thought is extremely encouraging.
So what do you think? Is there such a point? Do you think you have reached it? Are you as encouraged by this as I am?
17 Answers
What an awesome quote.
I felt that way after my last immersion experience in Mexico. I realized that I could vocalize 90% of what I wanted to say...even if I got a few "por's" and "para's" wrong, I had the vocabulary! I was very surprised that it was all stored in my brain and came out when necessary.
That's why I think it's crucial to make hundreds of flashcards, or do whatever method works for you, to learn any new vocabulary words and reinforce the old ones.
You said:
I will constantly reinforce it, reading and listening to whatever I can.
From everything I've read and heard from other people (and from my own experience), this is key to maintaining your grasp of any language. If you don't use it, you lose it.
I don't think those big numbers are really all that important. The few times that I have been able to sit down and "read" an English dictionary, I have been pleased with how many of the words that I know (or can make a really good guess!) But there are a large number of words I don't know. And in sixty years of using English... I haven't needed them!
It is said that the Eskimos have 28 different words for snow. I know: snow. Ok, maybe powdered and slush and I suspect that the serious skiers might have more. But my point is, unless you live near a volcano, how many different words do you need to know for lava? But I am sure that there are many.
In a number like 12,000, there has got to be a lot of repeats. But that's ok, if I had the time, I wouldn't mind going to the movie house on Monday, the cinema on Tuesday, the theater on Wednesday ...(you get it, I'm sure)
Thanks very much for the encouraging post. If I would have known then what I know now, I probably would not have undertaken this task, but, on the other hand, knowing what I do know now, I am immensely happy that I have reached the point I have. Oh God help me to continue to a level of fluency!
Learning vocabulary is almost akin to 'diminishing returns. For example, if we have attained a 2000 word Spanish vocabulary, we can comprehend 80% of written texts. If you double your vocabulary to 4000 words, your comprehension only reaches 87%, and even with a 15,000 word vocabulary written comprehension is not quite 100% (97.8%) This proves to me that we can be very happy using our 2000 words in the 'inner circle' of our Hispanic friends. How cool. In my mind, 80% comprehension is a marvelous accomplishment and one to rejoice in.
To achieve a level of fluency, a 2000 vocabulary is about the minimum to get you into the 'circle', but the good news to me is, even though I would not understand 2 out of 10 words (my 80% comprehension), with a 2000 word vocabulary you can usually figure out the two unknown words from context. Of course, the smart thing to do is building a vocabulary of the most commonly used words and forget the uncommon ones (you can find published word lists such as The General Service List, the American Heritage Word Frequency Book and many others). Of course, this is a lot clearer to me now than it was when I started, but I'm thankful that my journey at least has a focal point now, and a means to get there (fluency).
Again, thanks Goyo! It's encouraging to hear 'real world' information, especially when it seems to jive so well with my own experience.
PS: One other thing. I'm not so sure about the 'use it or lose it' thing. I believe it's true at the beginning levels, but I don't think so once you've accomplished a higher level. For example, there is an old redneck farmer here that lived in Mexico for 15 years. He's been back in the US for 10 years and had not used his Spanish at all or very little during the last 10 years. The other day he went out into a field where a group of Mexicans work working and he just started jabbering up a storm with them. It was kind of an amazing surprise for us.
That quote is really encouraging! I better get cracking on reaching that 1000-2000 word threshold then.
I agree with Marianne that, if you don't use it, you lose it. I went from speaking Spanish everyday for several years to only having one two-hour phone conversation every other week. If it hadn't been for that bi-weekly conversation, I would have lost a huge amount of knowledge in the three years that I was away from a Spanish-speaking community. Still I find myself surprised at not being able to find words in my memory banks that I used to know.
I do agree with you that there comes a point where you start to understand enough and communicate enough that the language becomes such a part of you that you would be unlikely to allow yourself to lose it and more likely to continue to learn it. I remember when I was first learning the language that I would go through long periods of feeling like I was making no progress at all and suddenly there would be a shift where it was suddenly noticeable to me that I was improving. These shifts would keep me motivated to keep learning more.
I do think I've reached the point of no return. I can't imagine stopping learning Spanish now (not least because I would have to stop posting on here!!) There was a point about two months ago when I thought about giving it up because I was so discouraged that I wasn't learning fast enough, but I persevered and boy am I glad I did 
!
Definitivamente hay un punto donde aprender empieza a ser automático. Es similar a aprender a montar en bicicleta o aprender a caminar o nadar. Llegar a ese punto y ya no se caen o se siente como si estuviera ahogándose.
There definitely is a point where learning starts to become automatic. It is similar to learning to ride a bike or learning to walk or swim. Reach that point and you no longer fall off or feel like you are drowning.
PS I still feel like I am drowning. I am not sure of the Spanish above for example.
This is extremely encouraging Greg. Thanks for sharing. I do know thousands of words and phrases. It is in putting these words together to form an accurate sentence that still causes frustration. 
I'm getting there though....slowly but surely. I like you Greg, have no intentions of ever giving up.
I like the quote. I believe there is such a point but I don't know if I'll ever get to it. I do know I'll never give up so maybe I am there but knowing 1200 words doesn't help enough if you don't know the grammar. I have more thirst for knowledge now than when I was in High School but my attention span hasn't seemed to change much so I just keep plugging along. I started learning Spanish 10 years ago just before my first trip to Mexico. No major study just reading texts at lunchtime and that sort of thing. I've never counted but I believe I'm well past the 1000 mark. Now, if I could just get up the nerve to join in on Skype.
This is a great quote! I feel like I reached that level this last semester. I knew it was a big hurdle for me because my Spanish-speaking friends were comfortable speaking with me in Spanish although I didn't always comprehend everything they said.
Because of this, a lot of people have started asking me if I am fluent. Usually, I just say yes, even though I don't really feel fluent. I can verbalize anything I wish to say, but there are many moments when I misunderstand others. For monolingual English speakers, I know I seem fluent, but to Spanish-speakers, I have a long way to go. So, when exactly are you fluent?
I feel the same way you do Goyo; I don't want to give up on learning Spanish and I'll always enjoy learning it. And I think that's the way you should be if you really want to learn the language. You have to be willing to go to the point of no return until you've reached your goal. Gracias for the post, it's encouraging.
Thanks for posting that Goyo. I agree, 1000 to 2000 words is much more do-able and encouraging than 12,000+, yikes!
I'm sure that I'm nowhere near 1000 myself... Although I'm sure I can understand much more of what I hear (compared to speaking), like yesterday on chat I could get the gist of some of it! (when my connection didn't cut off the sound, grr...) But I can speak hardly anything it seems -- I have no microphone at the moment so I was just listening yesterday, which is helpful too, but hopefully sometime soon I can join in.
Several people have said the quote was encouraging, and that's why I posted it. I had read a few months ago where this guy said that to learn a foreign language to a comfortable and useful you need to learn 12,000 to 15,000 words, and that by learning 1 new word a day it will take you 40 years to do so! Even though I didn't believe his bleak assessment, it was hard for me to shake the discouragement.
Encouragement is what it's all about! I know that we can and will do this if we don't give up.
That is encouraging. I was beginning to think that this was never going to result in a time where I could actually speak fluently. I am really confused with all the conjugations and I was ready to give up. I know it is helping my brain to memorize these flashcards, but as far a speaking, I have a long way to go.
Thanks for posting this Goyo. I can identify with it. I am constantly looking for programs in Spanish to listen to on TV and I read Spanish novels, magazines and newspapers as much as I can. I don't want to lose what I have learned and I feel that I am learning more and more by doing these activities.
