Does everybody have to abide by the forum rules?
Case in point>>> Winterdays20. It took me a little time to catch on to the website rules and he is learning both English and Spanish. He has been flagged multiple times and I for one think we should have learned about his learning needs before scaring him away.
I am sure that I will be scorned for this post, but I am willing to take the heat. I believe that we owe him an apology.
17 Answers
I am trying to help Winterdays on another thread. See this thread ----> Verifying Account. If anyone else wants to jump in to give help I'm sure it would be welcome.
I don't think there's reason for scorn.
I must admit I have felt a bit of irritation with some of the posts you refer to (Winterdays20 is NOT the only, nor the worst case), but it really has more to do with following the rules and using some common sense, than anything else. It takes very little effort to observe how the Forum works, how people post and what is the general feel of the place. It takes just a few minutes to read the rules. And if you get flagged, or someone mails you a comment, then you can show your good faith by trying to comply and follow the rules of the place.
This Forum is different from others where I have participated. I have had to learn about some of its idiosyncrasies - still learning , and do my best to correct my mistakes. It's the least that any and all of us can do.
Sure we can, and should, cut some slack to those users who are struggling with both languages. But personally, I do ask for a bit of awareness and willingness to learn and adapt - and that has little to do with your mastery of the language, in my view.
I think Wintedays is making an effort, and I do believe he will be OK, and go on to become a valuable member of the community.
Other users leave after a few tries, and I admit I'm not sorry to see some of them go.
Thank you for bringing this up Sunshinezmom.
It's kind of funny when you think about it, punishing people for not speaking English properly...on a site for learning English.
I entirely agree. It can be quite hard to get used to a new language, and when learning two at once, some of the rules of the language can be quite difficult to master with all proficiency. Grammar issues are inevitable in this situation. People seem to be more polite and understanding of him now, but I definitely think he deserves an apology.
I would also like us to consider that joining SD is like joining a club or an organization. We have our reasons for joining on one side and there are the club's rules on the other. I think it is but normal for a neophyte to stumble at the start while still getting familiar with the environment and its rules. How the club enforces its rules, which may be rightfully questioned if deemed excessive and may be adjusted if it merits to be so, has also to be taken as part and parcel of the club's nature. I sympathize with Winterdays because he may be struggling with both Spanish and English, but he is also here to learn. I would look at all that's happening to him here as part of the learning experience. Anyway, I think the idea of punishment is not what drove people to flag his questions, but rather it was the need to call his attention to be more attentive to what he was being taught to do. Teachers cross out our wrong answers, but those are meant to make us avoid those mistakes next time and that's one way for us to learn. My message to Winterdays is for him not to take things too personally. Though I too am relatively new here in SD, I think I can safely assure him that there are very many people here who are really nice and have our best interests in mind. So hang in there, Winterdays, as I think it will all make sense to you later on.
Anyway, I think the idea of punishment is not what drove people to flag his questions, but rather it was the need to call his attention to be more attentive to what he was being taught to do. Teachers cross out our wrong answers, but those are meant to make us avoid those mistakes next time and that's one way for us to learn.
Thank you very much Rikko , this is exactly the point. I had no intention of punishing the member...but simply call his attention, as all the other methods failed.
And please note, everybody, it was I who flagged winterday, Nicole flagged him once because I asked her to!
Really, I have no time for this. I cannot spend my time sending a dozen Pms to a member who apparently simply refuses to abide by the rules.
As it seems it was not a good idea anyway, I will take other measures next time, thanks for all the input.
I would like to remind everybody though that this forum only has like 10 rules, and everybody has to abide by these rules.
I have never flagged anybody. I deliberately don't do it.
Normally I'd totally agree with you there Ian, however I flagged somebody a day or 2 ago, because I was really concerned that their spam post could be doing something to members' computers. As I was reading the post to see what it was about, my page kept re-loading (may not be the right term as I'm not terribly computer-savvy), appearing to be adding more and more or possibly downloading something?
The post in question has been removed completely I noticed.
I will take some of the heat on this issue. For the past twenty-four hours, I have been correcting Winter's posts and requesting that he be careful with his spelling, capitalization and grammar. Several other members have been doing the same thing. There was no response and no attempts at improvement were made.
Tonight, when Winter asked why he was losing points, I answered three separate times. Although I explained the reason he was being flagged and tried to do so politely, someone felt the need to flag my answer. I actually didn't realize that until just now when I went to add this direct link. Within minutes of my first answer to this post, I reread some of Winter's previous questions. It suddenly occurred to me that English might not be his first language. I then immediately informed Heidi of my thoughts on this and posted the second answer to Winter's post. Hours later, my suspicions were confirmed. English was not his native tongue. I then added a third response apologizing to Winter.
I am sincerely sorry if this has caused any problems or if this has put the site in a negative light. To Winter, I apologize again. I'm sorry someone felt the need to flag my answer, but that is a personal choice. For the most part, I believe that those of us who were involved in trying to communicate with Winter for the past day or so are very encouraging to newcomers. I am especially in awe of anyone trying to learn two languages at once.
Sunshine, thanks for bringing this point up. Sometimes unkindness does prevail. I just think that this is a case of miscommunication. Hopefully, there will not be any hard feelings.
Nicole
Sunshinz, you won't be scorned by me. I agree that we need to be careful when we flag someone's post, and I agree that Winterdays20 should get an apology. That said, I still think the flag is an important tool on this site. We have all seen some rogue members who put up offensive posts (this certainly does not include Winterdays). Perhaps the "unclear/inaccurate" flag should not cost the poster any points.
All of this just reinforces the argument that on the next revision of this site, new members should be required to indicate their fluency level of both Spanish and English when they sign up. That is currently an option, but the issue could be forced.
All of this just reinforces the argument that on the next revision of this site, new members should be required to indicate their fluency level of both Spanish and English when they sign up. That is currently an option, but the issue could be forced.
HI Calvo, I have tried, it has not been possible so far. And I am the first to regret that, trust me.
Y finalmente ¿qué sucede si alguien obtiene muchas banderitas flags?
You do have a good case in point. I can't imagine the frustration of trying to learn English and Spanish at the same time, or for that matter any two languages at the same time. Someone did make a good point, however, about the fact that one should learn from mistakes and try to correct them after multiple times.
As someone else pointed out, even when we are speaking, sometimes the words do not come out as we mean for them to. Added to this is the inablility of the written word to convey nuances that we usually make when speaking which sometimes leads to misunderstandings of both meanings and intents.
All in all, patience is required all around.
We were doing an exercise using a color and phrase...in a blue moon, green with envy etc.etc. I used red **** to express anger. Could of used a little slack on that one! No Flag, just disappered? Your right common sense. I'll be more careful. Slang is important in any language. Question to the admins... is there a line and where is it drawn?
Hi Sunshine
I have never flagged anybody. I deliberately don't do it.
Anyone on here that is not a native English or Spanish speaker deserves a medal - not a flag.
PS Learning a new language from another language which is not one's first language is a very good way to improve both of them.
