is Cinco pronounced "thinko?" Barcelona, "Barthelona?"
This is an old tale that may or may not be true. To Wit, a Spanish King with a lisp was responsible for changing some Spanish pronunciations. E.G., cinco became "thinko" and Barcelona became "Barthelona." Can you settle this, once and for all?
Dan Scanlan Reston, VA
9 Answers
The "lisping king" is a stupid myth promulgated by those who have no knowledge of Spanish phonetics (in particular, and of language development, in general). If the myth were true, then there would be no "s" sound in Castillian Spanish and Spaniards would say "Si sabes distinguir entre los sonidos, pues ¡Qué lo hagas!" very differently from the way that they, in fact, say it.
English, too, has two sounds (the theta and the "s"). Would you suggest that because English speakers distinguish between "sin" and "thin" (or "sink" and "think") that they are "lisping" (in the latter cases) and that their "lisp" miraculously disappears when saying the formers words?
To state that someone has a lisp, means that he never employs the "s" sound (and, in fact, can't even when he tries [especially in contexts when other speakers of the same language do so]).
In Andulucia, they don't use the "th" dipthong and many of the Conquistadors came from that region, seeking their fortunes in the New World as it has been historically a poorer region of the country. Thus the reason it isn't heard in Central & South America. It should be noted that in the only Spanish speaking country in Africa, Equatorial Guinea, they do speak with the "th" dipthong on z's and c's before an e or i.
In Argentina "c" is pronounced as "s" when followed by e and i
Example: Cecilia
Except when c is followed by a, o, u that it is pronounced as k
Examples:
casa
cometa
culto
For many years, I thought that "seseo" and "ceceo" described two forms of standard pronunciations. I also thought, how cool of the Spanish to have two distinct terms to exactly describe the difference between the predominant pronunciation in Spain and that of Latin America. Since joining SD, I have learned that "ceceo" is not the proper term to describe the prevalent pronunciation in Spain. It means "to lisp" and that is not applicable to Spain (except for a very few regions).
What normally happens in Spain is that there are two, quite distinct sounds (as there are in English, Greek and other languages) and they are pronounced differently (duh). It would appear that some Spanish speakers in Latin America are so ignorant of the pronunciation in Spain that they mis-label the use of a different phoneme as "lisping". It would also appear that large numbers of English speakers (especially in America) assume these pronouncements to be correct (without any knowledge of the subject and without bothering to find out how things are actually pronounced in Spain).
Some languages have only the one sound ("s") for example French, Japanese and Latin America, others (for example English, Greek and Peninsular Spanish) have two sounds. Making a distinction is not "lisping"!
If you wish to perpetuate stupid/incorrect myths about Spanish, that is your prerogative.but you should bear in mind that anyone with even a passing knowledge of Peninsular Spanish will think you a fool.
..oh, ps, The story about the lithping king is what Wikipedia highlights and links as an "urban legend" (Eso me gusta!)
...and I think I remember reading in some history book that the pronunciation in Latin America stems from the origin of the greater majority of Spaniards who emigrated there from a particular region of Spain.
I also very well remember hearing a fictional interview with Pablo Neruda's wife, Matilde Urrutia, talking about the night of his death with reporters and in that recording I could not make out a single "s" !!!! (I remember it well because I must have listened to is at least one hundred times. No s´s made it particularly difficult for this beginner to understand.)
I subsequently read that the majority of settlers from Spain to Chile hailed from the Basque country.
Anyone who knows more about these things, please correct me. (What I would especially like to know is "whose was the voice of Mathilde in my grabación!!"
In castilian, or "the king's spanish", yes, c's and z's are lisped when before i or e . In latin america, they are usually pronounced like the english "s" in that context.
ejercicios : e hair thee thee ous
I find pronunciation a difficult topic in Spanish. In fact, I have just ordered a "libraco" (tome, maybe it won't be as big as I am expecting
on the subject: The Sounds of Spanish: Analysis and Application Robert M. Hammond including an example CD with mp3 sound files.
When I have read and studied that book, I may be able to write a better post, but in the meantime, I suggest that a look at the Wikipedia article on Ceceo
I also saw that the RAE (Real Academia Español weighs in on the subject here: seseo and here ceceo and if the posts are still around on this site, you will find several by searching for these words in Answers at Span¡shD!ct.com. I can remember conversations/threads that I could hardly follow a the time among Lazarus1907, Samdie, Heidita and James Santiago, for example. Others have contributed good information, too, I recall. Hope they can still be found.
The Sounds of Spanish: Analysis and Application Robert M. Hammond
Yes, but only in Castilian Spanish. So in Spain, thats how it will be pronounced (eg Gracias->GraTHias, but in any latin american country they will say it gracias, because they find it extremely hard to make a TH sound
That would explain Fez' accent on "That 70s show".
