What's with all the arguing with native speakers?
A while ago we were discussing how to make newbies feel more welcome. That subject was popular as you don't want to scare away new learners by being rude, right?
Just as importantly, I have been noticing how the native speakers here on the sight are being taken for granted. After all the last thing we need is a bunch of barely educated Spanish speakers patting each other on the back and not challenging themselves to learn! I don't know about you all, but I have been frustrated by the complete lack of respect on some threads for native speaker's advice. Self-proclaimed beginners trying to tell native speakers how they should speak their own language!
Now I understand that nobody is perfect and once in a while it is possible for a native speaker to make a mistake, but it has been a little ridiculous lately. If we keep this up native speakers will not enjoy hanging around at the forum and sharing advice. This would be a real tragedy for all of us that are here to learn.
I find checking both reputation points and profiles has kept me out of trouble in the past when I thought I was right and realized I was about to question a native speaker. Their advice saves us a lot of learning time and prompts us to research deeper into our grammar. Just recently, I read a thread in which the participants, mostly beginner or intermediate learners were arguing with a native speaker about the nuances of the words cielo, cielos, and nubes. How can they possibly think they understand this better? Maybe they didn't even take the time to check the source of advice!
What do you think? How can we help native speakers feel more welcome?
8 Answers
Renae, I didn't even realize this was a problem. I guess I have not come across any posts where members were being rude to native Spanish speakers. I don't doubt that this happens, it is just that I hadn't noticed.
I agree that if anyone has the audacity to be unappreciative or argumentative with someone who truly knows the language, that this should stop. There are so many posts where corrections are needed and even asked for. We must make sure we show our appreciation to those who are fluent and take the time to correct and teach us.
I just wanted to point out that it is difficult to fully know someone's intention here (without the benefit of facial expressions, tone or body language) So I think there are many times when people will question a native speaker as to why something was corrected, in order to get a better understanding. Occasionally, this might appear to be rudeness, when actually, it is just someone questioning something from several different angles in order to obtain a better understanding. This has been discussed before in relation to correcting the newbies, as you mentioned.
I think the best policy is to read over what you type before hitting enter. If your true feelings are not adequately conveyed through the words you have typed, it might be wise to add an additional sentence, smiley face, etc. in order to assure the person you are addressing that you are coming from a place of respect and peace.
You make a great point. I've noticed several new native speakers who are already making great contributions. I'm glad to see them here. I've also noticed a number of newbies that don't identify their level of English or Spanish.
Please, folks, fill out your profiles. It makes a lot of difference in the way some of the native speakers answer your questions.
A native speaker won't go into a detailed explanation about future subjunctive with a "beginner", or give a simple response about the preterit to an "advanced" or "fluent" speaker.
Renae, I haven't noticed the problem you've listed here but if it's as you say then you are absolutely right. I don't know what the solution would be other than the awareness that you've just created. Good job! It's certainly true that even natives can make mistakes. And it's not just native Spanish. Don't forget, English is learned here also and even though a person is a native of their country and language, it doesn't mean they are experts either. I'm the perfect example there. I sometimes hesitate to answer questions regarding strict grammar in English though I've spoken only that for over 50 years. I had a D average in English but I can write a near perfect essay. Just don't ask me to break down the rules. So, whatever your native language, dont get frustrated by those who think they know more.
Jeezzle, I don't think Ranae was talking about discussing back and forth (I hesitate to use the term discussing--in Spanish "discutir" sounds like arguing). The native speakers I know are more than happy to go into a little more depth if asked. There's nothing a teacher loves more than an intellectually thirsty student.
I'm curious...I wonder if you can cite examples. I know when a native answers me I often do a "back and forth" with them so that I can fully grasp the details of the answer, I wonder if this discussion is the sort of thing you mean.
I beleive that you are 100 percent right about this. I would not argue with someone who has grown up speaking spanish for most of thier lives when I have only been learning during the past few months.
Just recently, I read a thread in which the participants, mostly beginner or intermediate learners were arguing with a native speaker about the nuances of the words cielo, cielos, and nubes.
If you are referring to the Rascacielos thread, then I disagree with you. Unless there were posts deleted from that thread, I think your perception of "arguing" is too strong. The best way to find out you are wrong is to say what you actually thought it would be, and then have someone else correct you. If that means saying to a native speaker "Doesn't it mean this instead?" and being told "No way", then so be it. You can't find out you're wrong until someone correct you, and no one will correct you if you never question your own understanding of the language.
Part of learning language (or helping to teach language, for that matter) is having a thick skin.... that means not taking it personally if someone corrects you, or not taking it personally if someone questions you and you have to defend or further explain your answer.
Thank you so much, everyone, for adding all of your great thoughts to this thread! I have been so impressed to get your take on things, as well as relieved to hear that some of the native speakers feel as if everyone has been really sweet. I know the older members of the forum who are well-recognized native-speakers have been welcomed...I was a little more concerned with some of our newer members. I went back over the few threads that I felt were unexceptably rude with the idea in mind to provide a few examples for you all, and was pleasantly suprised that our members had the courage to amend there statements and clarify there intentions.
This really encourages me! Maybe we just needed a thread like this to remind and gently prompt us to create a respectful forum where everyone is welcomed and valued! I want to personally say thank you to all of you out there who have gone out of your way to support me in my quest for knowledge!
