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Non "international-standard" spelling?

Non "international-standard" spelling?

7
votes

I was surprised, to say the least, at this comment by volpon:

As for "practising, colour, favour, travelling?" I'm guessing you're sticking to these quaint, non-international-standard spellings because there are more British members here than from any other country? - volpon

This was posted on this thread as I insisted to post practising.

Now, what do we have to do, volpon, do we all have to adapt to the American English spelling because you are in the majority? big surprise

My spelling, for a change, mind you, jeje, as I am famous for my great typing skillsraspberry, was correct and I am not planning to change it because the mayority of the users of this site are Americans.

2848 views
updated Feb 5, 2010
edited by 00494d19
posted by 00494d19
Calma, calma, Heidita. (See below, please.) - 0057ed01, Feb 2, 2010
now now Heidita, don't get all worked up about it ;) and, I think you meant "majority" not "mayority" :-) - hlsbookworm, Feb 2, 2010
Yep, no need to create an International Incident from a little teasing, which I thought would be obvious. - 0057ed01, Feb 2, 2010
And I just love the "mayority" in your post ;)))) - Issabela, Feb 3, 2010
That's all fair and well Heidita, but did you have to make a thread to tell us how you spell? What is your question anyway? - TheSilentHero, Feb 3, 2010

13 Answers

5
votes

long face red face shut eye

I'm sorry I opened that can of worms. It really was an innocent mistake, I forgot about that one little difference in spelling, mainly because my focus is on Mexico and not Europe...

alt text

Can you find it in your heart to forgive me? (lol)

updated Feb 4, 2010
posted by aloshek
jejeje, this is about the facetious remark by volpon, ya he usado mi palabra nuevak, jeje, tú no has hecho nada;) - 00494d19, Feb 2, 2010
Love the cat! - Nicole-B, Feb 2, 2010
Our cat does not have such a humble disposition! - Nicole-B, Feb 2, 2010
yo también estoy bromeando (and now I have learned a new word as well!) - aloshek, Feb 2, 2010
I pretty sure it's not humility...rather I suspect a fuzzy mouse on a string is dangling just outside the view. - webdunce, Feb 2, 2010
That is a great pic aloshek - Izanoni1, Feb 4, 2010
About this picture, first, it is very interesting - Fidalgo, Feb 4, 2010
Second, the kitten makes me fascinated - Fidalgo, Feb 4, 2010
Me gustan sus bigotes - Fidalgo, Feb 4, 2010
Third and last, the description and the picture go well with each other - Fidalgo, Feb 4, 2010
4
votes

Well then, following this reasoning we could expect other speakers not only to adopt American spelling, but also pronunciation... And filnally, wouldn't it make things a lot easier if we all switched to English (or rather American), as it is the today's world's lingua franca?

And as for making English generally easier and more logical, have a look at the text below wink


The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union rather than German, which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, the British Government decided that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5- year phase-in plan that would become known as 'Euro-English'. In the first year, 's' will replace the soft 'c'. Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard 'c' will be dropped in favour of 'k'. This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter. There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome 'ph' will be replaced with 'f'. This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter. In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent 'e' in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away. By the 4th yer people wil be reseptiv to steps such as Replasing 'th' with 'z' and 'w' with 'v'. During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary 'o' kan be dropd from vords kontaining 'ou' and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi TU understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru. Und efter ze fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German like zey vunted in ze forst plas.

updated Feb 4, 2010
posted by Issabela
jejeje, I had read this before, very funny, great issa:) - 00494d19, Feb 3, 2010
lol - webdunce, Feb 3, 2010
I completely just died laughing because of that Issa. That's Great!! jajaja - hlsbookworm, Feb 3, 2010
Hilarious! - 0057ed01, Feb 3, 2010
JAJAJA....this is sooo funny! I almost felt like Adolf was in the room reading this to me...(sorry that was a bad bad joke) - bdclark0423, Feb 3, 2010
Mann, ei kan nat believ zis mes ov speling. - epicfail, Feb 4, 2010
3
votes

Yes, indeed, I was teasing; I am definitely not an American that suffers the unpardonable sin of hubris.

If you search "international spelling in English," some very interesting hits will pop up. The nub of most of them is that there is an attempt to standardize English. Or, in some cases, to create a entirely new version, like this one that shows much promise. (My tongue is firmly planted in cheek.)

"...rather than having to lern almost two languages... The written language could be made consistent, predictabl and streamlined and its basic principls require only a dubl page rather than a whole dictionary fleshing out exceptions to hundreds of ruls. (and on it goes...)

As for spelling? Colour is popular in Britain and its Commonwealth nations, while color is used in most other countries when American English has been adopted as the standard business language. (China, Singapore, Germany, etc.) Same for favour/favor. I see traveling spelled with one "l" in US print media, but when one sounds out the word, the British version with 2 "ll's" is more appropriate because there are clearly 3 syllables. I also favor/favour spelling **judgment* with its "e" intact which makes far more sense. And, practise is surely far better phonetically than **practice."

I don't believe it's a big deal which choices one makes.

But from what I've skimmed, the hits point to one certainty: English language usage and spelling will keep changing, as it always has...

And, my, I do love change!

updated Feb 4, 2010
edited by 0057ed01
posted by 0057ed01
OMG, U cnt b serious! def imo thngs c%d ezy change 2 adpt 2 txt msg & email - bdclark0423, Feb 2, 2010
Great point: in no time flat, we'll see that obnoxious cyber-lingo become standard English. That's a change I'm not sure I'll welcome. - 0057ed01, Feb 2, 2010
veri suun english wil hav ugli and strang speling wunc ower modern standerds ar dun and gon. - epicfail, Feb 4, 2010
2
votes

As the resident Brit on here, I have to put my two penn'orth in on this grin

We have been messing around with our language for thousands of years. We've pinched bits of it from the Romans, the Celts, the Danes, the Saxons, the Normans, the Germans, and everyone else we have come into contact with.

I would doubt that there are more than a handful of Englishmen alive who could actualy read Beowulf in the original English - I'm certainly not one of them. I struggle with Chaucer, and even find Shakespeare incomprehensible at times.

I wonder if anyone English person under the age of 50 even knows the difference between "who" and "whom", I'm sure most of them think infinitives are meant to be boldly split, and a lot of them have extreme diffficulty spelling their own names, let alone remembering to put the "u" in colour.

So, I really don't think you Yanks can do any more damage to our language than we have done ourselves. You may well even be improving it in many ways. However, as a dyed-in-the-wool traditionalist, I reserve the right to retain my u's, e's and double ll's for the rest of my lifetime at least. tongue laugh

updated Feb 4, 2010
posted by sheila-foster
You’re right: the cacophony of leftovers that the English language seems to have acquiesced leaves the not only the native speaker askew but anyone trying to properly learn it as well. - bdclark0423, Feb 3, 2010
Not yet 50, I DO understand differences of who vs. whom, but I definitely don’t demonstrate this mastery during ordinary oral intercourse, so do I appreciate the colored (or coloured) differences that exist: I think this was Valpon’s point :) - bdclark0423, Feb 3, 2010
To whom were you referring when you said "any English person under 50?" (But I agree, I don't use it in everyday speaking, but tend to do so when writing) - aloshek, Feb 4, 2010
2
votes

Heidita, not only because you most likely grew up learning British English spellings because you’re in Spain, but it makes sense to continue using British English, since you’re in Europe.

  • Also, it was around early 1800s that American English was changed to accommodate the spelling of words based on phonetic pronunciation. Well...SURPRISE!!!...Americans and the British don’t pronounce words the same. In fact, when you talk about differences in accents amongst English speakers, it’s always the vowel sounds that determine the dialect. So it’s only natural that American spellings are different from British. I don’t even want to go on to talking about Scottish, Irish, South American, Australian, etc.

I guess what surprises me the most is when a Native English speaker (namely Americans) hasn’t realized that there are actually different other correct ways to say, spell, and use English….after all we don’t call it ‘United-States-ese’ or ‘Americanish’

updated Feb 3, 2010
posted by bdclark0423
Good comments, good history, bdclark. This American-native-English speaker wholeheartedly agrees. - 0057ed01, Feb 2, 2010
Hats off to Noah Webster, for the first US dictionary. - CalvoViejo, Feb 2, 2010
2
votes

I think possibly he was being facetious? I have it in my mind that British spelling is actually more "international" than American spelling.

updated Feb 3, 2010
edited by webdunce
posted by webdunce
new word, web...facetious - 00494d19, Feb 2, 2010
is it 'facetious' or is it 'feces-ish' - bdclark0423, Feb 2, 2010
Actually British spelling has declined in influence, consistent with its declining status as a leader in international business affairs. - 0057ed01, Feb 2, 2010
The natives in L.Am. that I help with English are all still learning British, not American spelling. - 0074b507, Feb 3, 2010
1
vote

I don't know the history or exactly why some of these words were changed by Americans, but it is what it is.

The use of the word "change" here appears to imply that the "proper" spelling and usage of these words had already been etched in stone at the time of the split between the original 13 colonies and England. This could hardly be further from the truth.

The history of the attempts to standardize the English language has a long and interesting history that supersedes, by at least a few hundred years, the accomplishments of the OED and Noah Webster, respectively.

If you look at the OED, which does an admirable job of trying to document the evolution of the words of the English language, you will find that a single entry for a word will often have, in its examples of usage, at least a dozen variants throughout the recorded history of the word's usage. You have to remember, though, that even though the OED made tremendous inroads into standardization of spelling and usage, the task of cataloging the English language by the philological society (the group that gave rise to the undertaking that would come to be known as the OED) did not even commence until the 1850s. More importantly, the first portion (the A's) was not even published until nearly 40 years later.

In the U.S., on the other hand, Noah Webster (both a word enthusiast and spelling reformer) had already planted his own seeds of standardization when he published his first American dictionary of the English Language in the 1820s (a full century before the OED was "finished").

Of course, prior to this there were many different "dictionaries" in circulation, but most of these did little to unify the English language and were often regarded by critics as severely inadequate. One exception of note was the dictionary published by Samuel Johnson near the middle of the 18th century (a tome of about 1500 words), but even this was unlikely to have much of an impact in standardization due to inadequacies in scope and given the political climate of the time. The interference of political of events was especially evident in the U.S. in light of the fact that both England and its colonies were embroiled in and then recovering from a 10-year war with France around the same time Johnson's dictionary was published. Shortly thereafter, the two sides were then engaged in a 10 year "civil war" themselves that would culminate in the creation of the United States of America.

It should be no surprise then that since inroads into standardization of the English language only began in earnest during and shortly after the split between England and her colonies, it should come as no surprise that there are variations between the two. But to say that these variations were "changes" implemented by the Americans would be unfair. More likely, these variations already existed and were not changed as much as they were chosen (for whatever reasons) over other alternatives.

updated Feb 5, 2010
edited by Izanoni1
posted by Izanoni1
Hear, hear! Oops, "here, here". - samdie, Feb 5, 2010
1
vote

Too bad there isn't an English equivalent to the RAE.

But, since when did spelling have anything to do with pronunciation in English?

"Cough" "Off" both (the two) have the same final sound.

"Wind" and "wound" both have two pronunciations

And does "read" mean something you did in the past or something you're doing now?

What about "right", "wright", "write" and "rite"

to, too, two

Should I go on?

updated Feb 4, 2010
posted by CalvoViejo
All of those make English crazy! - epicfail, Feb 4, 2010
1
vote

I'm copying in an amusing and perceptive comment by bdclark: "OMG, U cnt b serious! def imo thngs c%d ezy change 2 adpt 2 txt msg & email"

It caps off the lively discussion we had about non-standard English a couple of hours ago.

Here's a comment I wrote in response: "Great point: in no time flat, we'll see that obnoxious cyber-lingo become standard English. That's a change I'm not sure I'll welcome."

updated Feb 3, 2010
posted by 0057ed01
the sad thing is I can't even understand now what I had type :-P - bdclark0423, Feb 2, 2010
well, I kind've got everything except the "imo" and the c%d ..... ? - hlsbookworm, Feb 3, 2010
1
vote

But, since when did spelling have anything to do with pronunciation in English?

Indeed, actually the system on this site in flashcards does not know anything about different pronounciations either.

In several of my verb lists, read(three forms) is pronounced as reed, reed, reedraspberry

updated Feb 3, 2010
posted by 00494d19
1
vote

Point well made Heidita! Also if I may add in my two cents, isn't it our responsibility as language fanatics to know and use all correct spellings both in English and Spanish? Not to mention to enjoy the unique cultural variety different countries bring to the same shared language! Who's to say which spelling is inaccurate or out-of-date? This should be a non-issue as we strive to become "fluent" in either English or Spanish. Bravo!

updated Feb 2, 2010
posted by renaerules
Huzzah! But you gals seem somewhat short on having a sense of humor. Or, is that humour? - 0057ed01, Feb 2, 2010
Being that I enjoy a sense of humor..and...a sense of humour as well...thanks for generously sharing both volpon! - renaerules, Feb 2, 2010
You're a good sport! I think your comment was just a great reason to discuss an interesting subject. - renaerules, Feb 2, 2010
1
vote

Aloshek said:

I'm sorry I opened that can of worms.

I probably added to the worms by correcting you Aloshek. So I apologize for that! wink smile LOLI didn't want to make you feel bad. But when it comes to English, the "Queen's English" is the original standard. I don't know the history or exactly why some of these words were changed by Americans, but it is what it is. smile

People trying to learn English probably think we're crazy. I say we all just hug virtually and agree to disagree.

Is anyone else in favor/favour of this practice/practise? wink wink cool smile

updated Feb 2, 2010
posted by Nicole-B
I didn't feel bad at all, I'm glad you corrected me...I'm usually quite conscious and appreciative of language differences, but my focus has not been what it should be recently...sigh. - aloshek, Feb 2, 2010
0
votes

Practice - Jordan

I was corrected againrolleyes

updated Feb 5, 2010
posted by 00494d19