SE what???
Hey guys....I have a question. Yes I have learned this before but my brain can't keep it all in sometimes. Ok.
In my daily meanderings I came across this contruction: Te se me nota? It was complete with a sad eyed bear, etc... It reads as "Do you notice me?" to me. Like "Do you even know that I exist?" That is how I read it. I got to thinking though about Se and how it acts with other pronouns. I assume notar is reflexive here, or pronomial at the very least being notarse. Of course we know about passive and impersonal Se and reflexive se and the Se that takes away some of the blame etc... I.e. Se me rompió esta mesa etc.. but how does Se react to other pronouns when used in a construction like this? We couldn't you say "Te me noto?" instead of "Te se me nota?" and why is "nota" in the third person singular? I understand this construction I just don't "understand" why I understand it. How does "se" really react when attached/impressed by a pronoun that it acts upon? Maybe I have it all wrong here, but "ya me voy" and "me doy por vencido" seem easy because they don't act on another pronoun but how would "me doy por vencido" read if it was acting on the pronoun "te"? "Te se me da por vencido"? you see where the confusion lies.
12 Answers
You missed the heart!!!!!!!!Te se me nota
So it couldn't possibly mean "It makes me noticeable to you" or something similar? I'm not sure I understand why it's wrong (though I hope it is, I dislike having 3 pronouns just shoved up at the beginning like that).
Isn't this the same construction as :
Se me olvida - I forgot (It forgot itself to me)
Meaning you focus on the thing forgotten rather than the person who forgot.
Same here right ?
Se me nota - I see it (It notices itself to me)
Just a shift in focus.
"Se te nota mi nuevo corte de pelo" está bien, el tema es que lo estás viendo desde el punto de vista de quien se corta el pelo y no del peluquero.
La idea del ejemplo era mostrar como se podía intercambiar la posición del sustantivo.
Yes great thread ! I know "it forgot itself to me" is wrong but it somehow helps me. I always use
"Se dice" as a reminder that "se" is not always reflexive but it's just soo tempting...
If your confusion lies in the third person conjugation, without all the grammar, it's basically like this "se" is used like "does anyone" or "do you" in English. A few of the examples you gave couldn't be possible. But "se" can be used in two ways. 1) Se baña, is a reflexive verb, a person doing something to his or herself. This is NOT what you are seeing in "Se me nota". 2) "Does anyone" notice me? Now, me, is actually the indirect object. So, "me nota" is "Does he or she or it notice me"... Since the person is not specified, it's the GSM grammar thing happening. Grupo sintactico nominal. So "Se me nota" is "Does anyone notice me?"
Firstly: "Te se me nota" is wrong, the correct sentence is " se me nota " or " se te nota". To understand why "nota" is in the third person see the following exaples.
"se me nota mi nuevo corte de pelo" "se te nota la herida en el brazo"
"el nuevo corte de pelo se me nota." "la herida en el brazo se te nota."
In spanish there is something called GSM (grupo sintáctico nominal).
Basically what you need in spanish to make a sentence is a noun and an adjective. But here the noun is omited and referenced by the verb.
"Se te nota mi nuevo corte de pelo"
This is not correct.
Se te nota tu nuevo corte de pelo.
Found a copy of the image that says "Te se me nota".
http://s0.fotolog.com.ar/photo/l/000/533/533448_111504047.jpg
Also, if "Se me nota mi nuevo corte de pelo" means "Does anyone notice my new hair cut" (according to Dana-Bates excellent paragraph above) then what does "Se te nota mi nuevo corte de pelo" mean. You see how the pronoun is confusing. "Does anyone notice, to you, my new haircut?" I don't get it.
Isn't this the same construction as :
Se me olvida - I forgot (It forgot itself to me)
Meaning you focus on the thing forgotten rather than the person who forgot.
Reading this thread on the topic of Se me olvida might interest you.
[Lazaras on this construction][1]
The se seems to be there because the verb is being used pronominally.
notarse
pronomial verb
also:
- no se nota la herida -> you can't see where the wound was
- se nota que le gusta -> you can tell she likes it
- (and yes, the se looks impersonal-you can or you cannot tell)
-
But here the noun is omitted and referenced by the verb.
se me nota... (mi nuevo corte de pelo) [noun phrase]
se te nota...
I understand that the (d.o.) noun phrase is missing, but how does the pronoun me or te reference it? Are you just saying that the me or te is an accusative pronoun?
So what exactly about those examples is supposed to make this clear to me? I understand what they mean but I still don't get the reason that "nota" is in third person. "Se me nota mi nuevo corto de pelo". Isn't that just impersonal se? One notices my new hair cut? I'm really interested in how it acts on another pronoun even if the poster apparently was printed with a misprint. I don't know how they are gonna sell it like that.
