Spain isn't a good place to learn Spanish?
Since I've starting learning the language I've always thought Spain would be a great place to spend some time and practice Spanish. However a friend told me yesterday that Spain in fact is not a good choice, because the European variety of Spanish is too "proper" (can't think of a better word) for the rest of the world particularly South/Central America. I know of some simple pronunciation differences but really how true is this?
20 Answers
There are differences in the language in every Spanish speaking country. Some of the differences are greater than others, but for the most part wherever you go to learn, you will generally be understood in all other Spanish speaking countries. (Think of speaking American English in England - it differs some, but we can understand each other pretty well) If you intend on using your Spanish in a particular country, learning in that country, of course, is probably best. For instance, I intend on using my Spanish exclusively in Mexico, so I focus on their vocabulary and use of verb tenses.
It is a thought- provoking question . Here in the U.K. my teachers have often warned us to avoid Latin American sites or books etc because of the differences in pronunciation and the usage of some words - but,personally , I don't find that aspect much of a problem and if I had followed the advice I would miss out on so much!
All languages evolve anyway.
It seems to me that any opportunity to practice the living language should be seized greedily!
So..the issue here is that 'Spain is not a good place to learn spanish because it's too proper'. First off, I have to know who your friend is. Is he hispanic or does he not even speak spanish at all?
About 2 months ago, I arrived here in Spain to stay for a whole year. I learned all my spanish in Florida, and basically all the spanish I had been exposed to and learned was of the hispanic variety (caribbean, south american, everything BUT spain spanish). I'm here in Spain to simply get fluent with it, the last coveted level.
I think your friend is probably hispanic, right? I'm also thinking he/she watches too much TV or movies that have depicted spainards in this fashion of being proper and such. A lot of hispanics don't use vosotros, they use ustedes to talk in the 3rd person plural. Some don't even know what it's for. My puerto rican friend was insisting on telling me that I didn't know what I was talking about and that vosotros was used for something else. Of course, him being the native hispanic got that immediate credibility and then no one believed me even though I'm the one with the major in the language..but whatever, that's another topic. Here's the low down on how my hispanic friends view 'vosotros'. They think it sounds WEIRD. It's something very strange to them hearing these 'eis' 'ais' endings on the ends of verbs. Thusly, when they hear it being used, it really sticks out and lends a sort of properness and majesticness to the language.
Here in spain, it's as common and normal as the sky is blue.
That's about the only reason I can think that your friend would have told you that. The whole habeis, sois, vuestra merced, etc.
Let me tell you how things REALLY are here in Spain. Not once have I talked to ANYONE here that talks 'proper'. And I'm the one working in schools, the education system here. One would think that working in a more professional setting, that things would be more formalized. Additionally, before flying out of the country, a spanish professor in my university (from El Salvador) had warned me to not address any of the professors here using the familiar tú form, and to only use usted (she had noticed that I was really informal and loose with my spanish). Well you know what? The teachers are really lax and chill here. They address each other really informally and joke around and the whole world is either a 'tio' or 'tia'. Not once have I addressed a professor here using 'usted', and no one's gotten pissed off or felt disrespected. I'm cool here with everyone. So..why did my teacher tell me that? Probably because of preconceived notions with how 'spanairds' are. I mean, I respect my teacher and hold her in the highest regard, but she's never been to spain, so here's the best piece of advice:
DON'T listen to people who have never done or been to the place that is being talked about. Would you learn guitar from someone who's never picked up the instrument and has only seen people play and heard from people how it is to play the instrument? NO, right?? Same here. Your friend has never been to spain, don't listen to him/her. Spain is not this uptight, formal society, fascist state that you're imagining (well, maybe when Franco was still around, haha, but that's another story).
I'm in Andalucia right now. Here's the lowdown on these guys. They don't pronounce or enunciate at all, they couldn't do it to save their lives! Many of the endings of words do not exist and their 's' at the end of words are never there. Where does the whole image of formality and properness fit in here? It simply does not. It's very street and coloquial, really rural sounding. Took me by surprise a bit in the beginning, but I've grown quite accustomed to it and have started to like it, even starting to not pronounce and enunciate as well, haha. But that's just natural, the process of imitation of those and what that surround you.
So there you go. I graduated from college with a double major (one in spanish), with honors within the top 5% of the school. I've studied the different regionalisms and variations of spanish in peninsular and new world spanish. I lived in Florida, a state inundated with hispanics for my whole life. I am now living in Spain for what seems like forever already. With all this information, would you really listen to your friend over me?? You've got to learn to scrutinize the information you receive. Who told you, or who told the person that told your friend such and such and what makes them an authority on the subject as to be able to guage the trustworthiness of the information. No offense to your friend, but in regards to this case..he/she does not know JACK.
-Charlius-
Not to quibble with your friend, but, no, that is not true.
Anyplace is a good place to learn Spanish if you have good teachers who can answer your questions and who have clear pronunciation.
Find a place where you are comfortable, and enjoy learning Spanish!
I maintain that Castellano, the Spanish of Spain is like the trunk of the tree. It is strong, and from it's strength grows many strong branches.
In principle, there are neither good nor bad places to learn Spanish. More important than the area/county will be the educational level to the people with whom you come into contact. The greater the level of education, the more universal (generally useful) will be the Spanish that you learn (though, there will, of course, be differences in pronunciation). However, your situation may be such that you have very specific goals. If your intent is to communicate with the campesinos of (whatever) region/country, you will probably do better by going there rather than learning a more educated/universal flavor of Spanish.
There is no best place/method to learn Spanish (or any other language). It always depends on your goals and what works for you.
To Gus:
Ouch! Again, it's the issue of not being able to show emotions and intent accurately through simple text, and I will not plague my posts with millions of emoticons, I just can't do it.
I wrote my post with fervor and celerity as I do feel strongly about this subject. However, I had NO ill will against the silent H. It IS a good question.
If I had any ill will against anybody, it would be silent H's friend. It's a pet peeve of mine when people talk about something like they know about it when in fact they know nothing about it all..so probably from that, one could maybe see hints of confrontation.
Let's see..what else? Ahh, the whole 'inundated' thing?? Man, we're really picking at things here aren't we?? My intention for that was DEFINITELY not derrogatory. I LOVE spanish/hispanic people! As people reading my blog already know, I like to write and in my writing, I like to add various adornments and decorations to my language to better flush out what I want to say and to add color, provoke imagery. If the whole 'inundated' thing offended anyone of non-european white, whatever ancestry, I apologize.
Arggh, I hate this whole 'I have to watch where I step' thing. I want to be able to walk through the park without having to worry about stepping on dog doo! See what I mean about the whole imagery thing?
To conclude, I was NOT upset at the time of my original post. I am not angry at anyone. I am not an angry person. Now it is your turn not to get upset when I say this: I think sometimes on the internet, or whatever, people look too much into things and start going on witch hunts. We're hunting for things that aren't there, that simply do not exist. In Salem, they were hunting for witches..here, we're looking for ill-will, both of which (pun intended, hee hee) do not exist. I apologize for any misunderstandings. Thanks for reading!
-Charlius-
Well, I am sorry you were upset by the inquiry.,Mr Charlius, The silent h, was doing the right thing by sharing his imformation with us, The persons that actually read it learned a couple of things. 1 What he calls proper(for lack of a better word) is voceo.Remember he is learning Spanish. 2. By asking the question, he was trying to verify, or find out the facts. Once upon a time I felt (I never been to Spain ) that Spain was a very formal country, but, I began watching Spanish's flicks, (movies,that were actually made in the country of Spain,performed by Spanish actors) And after seeig about 5 or 6 Spanish movies, I changed my point of view about Spain. I would like to visit it one day, but right now it is to expensive for me. My only objection to your educating paragraph is that you used the words "inundated with hispanics"to me that sounds like a derogatory comment about people of non european ancestry.
BlockquoteSince I've starting learning the language I've always thought Spain would be a great place to spend some time and practice Spanish. However a friend told me yesterday that Spain in fact is not a good choice, because the European variety of Spanish is too "proper" (can't think of a better word) for the rest of the world particularly South/Central America. I know of some simple pronunciation differences but really how true is this?
"Proper" Spanish is the Spanish spoken all over the world, and it's good to know the right way to speak it. If you know proper Spanish you can communicate well with any Spanish speaker. And there is no better place on earth to learn that than in Spain.
That being said, there are differences in Spanish no matter where you go. There are even some big differences in Spanish from one part of Spain to another. In Barcelona people don't speak the same way as in Seville and in neither of both places people speak like in Santiago de Compostela.
And of course, Spanish in Mexico is a bit different from Spanish in Argentina or Panama.
So the fact is, if you really want to know Spanish, you need to be ready to account for those differences from one place to another. And keep in mind that it's the "proper Spanish" that ties it all together!
Spain is the perfect place to learn Spanish! While it's true that the Spanish use some different ways of speaking (using the vosotros verb form and the "th" sound for the letters "c" or "z"), I found the people to be very nice and they love it when you at least try to speak to them in their language.
That is the whole point about education.When we start our life we see thru our parents eyes.Then when we get together with our elementary school chums, we beging to see thru other peoples eyes, but it takes years before we can actually learn to think for ourselves- sadly or gloriously because we are humans as hard as we try to be logical we can't let go of our past. With education,experience we learn to balance things. But our emotions won't let go; so the ghost of our past stay with us . There is a prayer that goes something like this, God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.
grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Spain is the best place to learn!!!!! jeje
We actually have a member on this board who is learning Spanish in Spain right now, let's see if he says something about this
Oh my God! What a provocative statement. Well, honestly speaking I skipped all the posts of yours as I'd like to make a simple statement, which, I believe, should be valid for all learners of foreign languages (I must humbly admit that currently I am trying to spread enlightenment somewhere in Poland in the field of foreing languages) Going abroad to a country whose language you're currently learning is the BEST WAY to improve your skills in the twinkling of an eye. The only condition to achieve this goal is to keep at bay from your fellow countrymen, who you migh bump into by accident, and to have basic/elementary Spanish already mastered. I witnessed a huge progress of an Espa?olito, who decided to waste his time with everybody but his compatriots, who were also there (they, on the other hand, formed a hermetic group, that's why what they managed to improve was their Spanish, instead of English...) He really achieved the goal. Moreover, his example proves that watching American, let's name it- films- is a good way to master slangy expressions. I am also wondering what do you mean while saying "proper Spanish" Well, I am not Spanish so I am not a specialist, but I don't agree with you. Even if it were true, you should, as a beginner, start with proper vocabulary and grammar. Later on, you can do what you want with that. Anyway, the subject is really broad and includes plenty of topics....
To Charlius, Now you made me mad............I am just kidding. I see ghost were sometimes there are none-this is true- but I have seen the ugly side of humanity. During the 50 and 60 Mexicans or other non white latin americans were treated awful. I remenber one time, My parents and my brother and sister travel from Washinton DC to Guatemala by car.My father who was dark skined was not able to secure a motel room for us. He had to send my brother who is white and green eyed to rent the motel room. This and other occurences similar to this one, taught me to be on guard.Look Guatemala itself is an ultra racist country, if you act,speak dress like a Maya .......I see life thru the eye glasses issued to me and others see thru theirs. Ghost do exits and monsters too, regarless of the eye glasses you wear.
And there is no better place on earth to learn that than in Spain.
This is my maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!
