I'll believe it when I see it - subjunctive needed?

Question

In the expression "I'll believe it when I see it," does "ver" take the subjunctive or the indicative? I've had it machine translated both ways. I think in general "creer" does not set up the subjunctive, but in this case....?

Thanks for the help.

Answer 1

I'm still working on the subjunctive too, so you can take my comments with a grain of salt...

I think that this falls under the rule about adverbial phrases. Certain adverbial phrases (like para que and a menos que) always require the subjunctives, while others, including cuando, only require the subjunctive if there is an element of "anticipation" or uncertainty.

In this case, I would say there is definitely an element of uncertainty, so you should use the subjunctive.

(The fact that you have the verb "creer" is irrelevant because the phrase "when I see it" is an adverbial phrase, and so comes under different rules.)

Good point. - 0074b507, Dec 2, 2009

Good point about "cuando". I didn't even think of that! - uubethnw, Dec 2, 2009

Answer 2

I'd use the subjunctive, because it's actually a tentative statement. You don't assume that you will definitely see it.

And creer does not trigger the subjunctive in phrases like "Creo que estás muy amable", but in your example, "Lo creeré cuando lo vea" cuando could be replaced with si (if). And it's hypothetical, right?

P.S. And because I love googling for new phrases, look what I found

"Lo creeré cuando lo vea"

I like yours better, because in this context your answer is more applicable. Mine was meant to be more general. - 0074b507, Dec 2, 2009

It just seems to me that there is this tangible element of doubt in this phrase. Though I still feel a bit unconfident with the subjunctive. - Issabela, Dec 2, 2009

Actually, there is great confidence you will *not* see it. Not sure if that helps any. - webdunce, Dec 2, 2009

PUtting it in subjunctive makes sense to me as you are basically saying "I believe I will never see it" (which would be in indicative). - webdunce, Dec 2, 2009

A vote for the link. - webdunce, Dec 2, 2009

Answer 3

And, on the other hand:

"Lo creeré cuando lo veo"

Answer 4

I am betting there is a idiomatic expression for this in Spanish.

I'm not sure about this one, but "seeing is believing" is "ver es creer" or "ver para creer". :-) - chaparrito, Dec 2, 2009

Fortunately, I'm betting play money. - webdunce, Dec 2, 2009

As Chaparrito said, the expression is "ver para creer". - 00e657d4, Dec 2, 2009

Answer 5

Do you wish to express doubt about whether you will ever see it or not?

Spanish has many constructions that require the subjunctive mood, but there are also many instances where the choice between indicative and subjuctive is totally up to the speakers intent.

Yes, this phrase expresses doubt. - uubethnw, Dec 2, 2009