reflexive verbs!
hi all,
I have something i don t understand! Do we have to use reflexive verbs with the following sentences? if so, why?
Tienes que sentarte Va a irse al parque
these come a little ridiculous to me, but why? why should we see the verb sit down as reflexive or why should we see the verb to go as relexive???????????????????
8 Answers
so? nobody to answer it?
Ir is a little different, because ir (non-reflexive) is used when you wish to emphasize a destination. Voy al mercado. (I am going to the market).
Irse (pronominal) is used when you wish to emphasize that you are about to or in the act of leaving.
Me voy al mercado. (I'm walking out the door to go to the market or I'm getting into the car to go to the market. I'm leaving vs. I'm going).
voyme al parque con un amigo
The pronoun is not appended to the verb when conjugated: Me voy al parque con un amigo.
I am leaving for the park with a friend.
Voy a ir al parque con un amigo.
I am going to go to the park with a friend.
Voy a irme al parque con un amigo
I am going to leave for the park with a friend.
Bottom line: The pronominal use (a pronoun is used with the verb) gives a slightly different connotation to the meaning of the verb than without it (e.g. accidently rather than purposely) or inform us how the verb is being used grammatically (passively, reflexively, impersonally, etc.).
Common mistake of beginners:
Do not think that every time that the verb has a pronoun (se) used with it that the verb is being used reflexively. Reflexive is just one of the first pronominal uses of a verb that is taught.
so when we use the verb ir anytime, we need to use it as reflexive like:
Me voy a la escuela Voy a irse a la escuela Me voy al parque etc....?
why should we see the verb sit down as reflexive
Sit, when used to mean "sit down," is used transitively, in both Spanish and in English. This means that the verb takes a direct object (D.O.). For example:
I sat him down in the corner [D.O. = him]
Lo senté en el rincón [D.O. = Lo]
He sat me down in a chair, and we had a long [D.O. = me]
*Me sentó en una silla y conversamos largo rato. [D.O. = Me]
In the above, the verb is not used reflexively (subject and D.O. do not refer to each other). However, it is not uncommon that this verb be used reflexively. One big difference between English and Spanish is that when a verb is used reflexively in Spanish, it requires that it always be accompanied by the reflexive pronoun. In English, however, the reflexive pronoun is often omitted or implied.
I am sitting (myself) down on the couch
Me siento en el sofá
I am going to sit (myself) on the bench
Voy a sentarme en el banco
voy al parque con un amigo if the logic is the verb ir is reflexive, we need to say voyme al parque con un amigo, right?
Again in both English and Spanish, the verb go/ir is used intransitively to indicate a motion. The main difference, as I understand it, is that in Spanish when you use the word ir intransitively it presupposes or requires a definition. For example:
Voy al cine but never just voy.
In English, it is possible to use go without reference to destination or point of departure, and I suspect that this may be a result the fact that when a verb is used reflexively, it is often unnecessary to include the reflexive pronoun. If, however, you take a look at the transitive use of the verb go in English, you will see that there is some overlap in the way that the verb is used transitively in English with the way that irse is used in Spanish.
In English, the transitive use of the verb go means to travel or proceed along, and this is very similar to the way in which irse is used.
I'm going on my (own) way or I'm leaving
Me voy
I will go (will be on my way) to Paris tomorrow
Me iré a Paris mañana
Because of the reflexive use, a big difference between ir and irse when a destination is specified is that often ir is used for more mundane tasks; whereas, irse would be more like you are leaving the mundane tasks behind for your destination. For example:
Voy a escuela
I'm going to school (like I do everyday)
Me voy a escuela
I'm leaving for school (off to college for the first time, etc)
I'm making my way to school
Can you see how the reflexive meaning is more emphatic of the journey; whereas, the intransitive use places more emphasis on the destination.
Hopefully this helped and did not simply confound things more.
I posted a thread on this topic about a month ago, and if you are interested here is a link to the thread. Maybe it can give a bit more clarity to the subject:
Sometimes it helps to think of reflexive as "doing it to yourself". When I shower (me ducho) I am physically rubbing soap on myself. Thus, I am doing something to myself. With sentarse, have you ever heard someone say "sit yourself down" when they are ticked off? You are physically taking your rear end and placing it in the seat.
However, when you go to the park, it is a little more of a stretch to say you are doing something to yourself. Yes, you are relocating yourself; however, it would be awkward to say "go yourself to the park."
I hope that helps. A lot of times it is just memorization until you can recognize what seems like it should be reflexive.
so? nobody to answer it?
ok then, if we use ir as reflexive, why don t we use it in this way while saying
voy al parque con un amigo if the logic is the verb ir is reflexive, we need to say voyme al parque con un amigo, right?
Hi, Here is a link that describes all of the rules for using reflexive verbs: link text
Feel free to post another question if this does not help.
I asdu, welcome to the forum
Sentarse is easy, this is clearly reflexive as you sit yourself down as opposed to seating somebody else down (a child for example)
