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Was or were

Was or were

2
votes

"You are capitalizing El Atrevido as if it was a kind of nickname that everybody knew him by."

I got zero in grammar. I always have this tendency to write, as in the above sentence, "as if it were a kind of...". but then I always change my mind and write was. Heeeelp!

2574 views
updated Nov 5, 2009
posted by 0068e2f4

11 Answers

2
votes

In regards to your original question:

"As if it were" is a hypothetical/contrary to fact condition [subjunctive] and not a declaration [indicative].

Subjunctive

"You are capitalizing El Atrevido as if it were a (kind of) nickname that everybody knew him by."

Indicative

"You are capitalizing El Atrevido because it was a (kind of) nickname that everybody knew him by"


In a more general sense, the verb "were" is used differently in the indicative and subjunctive moods.

Subjunctive invariable verb form across person and number in the present tense

Were I a fish I would swim through the ocean [hypothetical]

Were you a fish you would swim through the ocean [hypothetical]

Were we fish we would swim through the ocean [hypothetical]

Were he/she/it a fish he/she/it would swim through the ocean [hypothetical]

Were they fish they would swim through the ocean [hypothetical]

Indicative Variable verb form across person and number. When used in the indicative, "were" and "was" are in the past tense

I was like a fish when I swam through the ocean [declaration]

You were like a fish when you swam through the ocean [declaration]

We were like fish when we swam through the ocean [declaration]

He/she/it was like a fish when he/she/it swam through the ocean [declaration]

They were like fish when they swam through the ocean [declaration]


If you were to use the past tense to describe a hypothetical condition then you would use:

Had I been born a fish then I would swim through the ocean..etc.


updated Nov 3, 2009
edited by Izanoni1
posted by Izanoni1
5
votes

If I was you

If you were it

If it was me

If I were you

If it were you

If it were me

(Actually, it should be "If it were I," but only I know that; so say "If it were me" or you'll get laughed at.)

updated Nov 3, 2009
posted by webdunce
English actually does have subjunctive conjugation, and we use it in the conditional clauses and a few other places, but it is distinguishable only in a few verbs. - webdunce, Nov 3, 2009
2
votes

That might be a good way to think of it. Hypothetical would be another way. Like "If I WERE a doctor I would..."

The underlying situation in English is contrary-to-fact (not mere hypothesis/supposition). Consider any number to mathematical statements: one can quite reasonably (and correctly) say "If A equals B, then ...". This is a simple hypothesis (and the use of the indicative, suggests that the speaker/writer thinks that A does, indeed, equal B). "If A were to equal B", suggests that the writer/speaker does not think that they are equal but is willing to entertain (probably/certainly false) assumptions for the sake of the argument.

updated Nov 3, 2009
posted by samdie
Well put. - webdunce, Nov 3, 2009
2
votes

I would say "as if it were some kind of nickname..."

updated Nov 3, 2009
posted by Seitheach
that's what I thought, but never did it...thanks. - 0068e2f4, Nov 3, 2009
2
votes

I would say:

"as if it were a kind of..."

updated Nov 3, 2009
posted by --Mariana--
1
vote

¡Hola! Robertico:

I extracted these definitions from the Collins on-line dictionary:

Was vb (with I, he, she, it, or a singular noun as subject) be, (the past tense of)

Were vb be, (the form of the past tense of) used after we, you, they, or a plural noun, or as a subjunctive in conditional sentences,

[Were, as a remnant of the past subjunctive in English, were is used in formal contexts in clauses expressing hypotheses (if he were to die, she would inherit everything), suppositions contrary to fact (if I were you, I would be careful), and desire (I wish he were there now). In informal speech, however, was is often used instead.]

On the basis of those two definitions, I would choose "was" for the circumstances of your sentence construction.

updated Nov 5, 2009
posted by Moe
Isn't You the subject though? This answer makes me think were. - Seitheach, Nov 3, 2009
No, it is a clause that requires subjunctive. Were is correct. - webdunce, Nov 3, 2009
were is the grammatically correct form to use - Izanoni1, Nov 3, 2009
I chose "was" because "El Atrevido" actually was his nickname. I did not accept that there was any conjecture, wishing it were so or anything conditional about "El Atrevido." - Moe, Nov 3, 2009
I see your reasoning on this Moe. My only conflict with this is that he says "as if it were/was." To me that sounds like it is setting up a contrary to fact condition which would require the subjunctive - Izanoni1, Nov 3, 2009
I just ran across this item in one of my grammar books that states that "a condition introduced by 'as if' is always contrary to fact and therefore always requires the subjunctive" - Izanoni1, Nov 5, 2009
1
vote

I'd say "as if it were a kind of nickname". grin

updated Nov 3, 2009
posted by April-Sarah
1
vote

Let someone stated before the word were is used as a subjunctive for English. If you wish something WERE someway but it is not then use 'were'.

Was is used for things that are so. (The ball WAS red. I wish the ball WERE red).

updated Nov 3, 2009
posted by Jankow
contrary-to-fact? - 0074b507, Nov 3, 2009
That might be a good way to think of it. Hypothetical would be another way. Like "If I WERE a doctor I would..." - Jankow, Nov 3, 2009
Yes qfreed. "Contrary to fact" is a term I have encountered in several different grammar texts to describe conditions necessary for the subjunctive mood, especially regarding "if-clauses" - Izanoni1, Nov 3, 2009
1
vote

Wow! So many good answers here! Thank you guys.

updated Nov 3, 2009
posted by 0068e2f4
1
vote

English actually does have subjunctive conjugation, and we use it in the conditional clauses and a few other places, but it is distinguishable only in a few verbs.

It is distinguishable in all verbs. The difference in morphology between the subjunctive and indicative is apparent in all verbs by the absence of the /-z/ phoneme in the third person present indicative.

updated Nov 3, 2009
edited by Izanoni1
posted by Izanoni1
1
vote

Are these correct then?

If I was you

If you were it

If it was me

Man!!! Am I ever confused! I'm just going on what sounds good to my ears.

updated Nov 3, 2009
posted by 0068e2f4
I usually go with what sounds good myself. - Seitheach, Nov 3, 2009
No. It is "If I were you" and "If it were me" - eric_collins, Nov 3, 2009