Use of "Se"

Question

I get a little confused as to when you need to use "se".

For example in the sentence: "La escena con el camarero se repite cinco veces", I don't understand why we need to insert the "se". Wouldn't "La escena con el camarero repite cinco veces" mean the same?

Saludos Neil

Please, Neil, let us all know when you have "got" it! A flash of inspiration!! We are all rooting for you, as you can see from all of our responses, hoping ot have said just the right thing for you to recognize why this "se" is required. - Janice, Aug 20, 2009

Hi Janice, I can understand what Lazarus is saying, but he says it is using the reflexive pronoun "se". My verb book does not indicate that the verb repetir is reflexive. - casarosa, Aug 21, 2009

Also doesn't "repite" mean "he repeats", "she repeats" , "you repeat"or in this case "it repeats? So without the "se" the sentence means La escena .......it repeats five times? - casarosa, Aug 21, 2009

In Spanish, once again, you must "repeat SOMETHING!!!¨" the idea contained within that Spanish word does not allow you not to say what you repeat. So if the scene is repeating, you MUST SAY IN SPANISH that it repeats itself. - Janice, Aug 21, 2009

I think that what Lazarus means by "reflexive" is not that repeat is a "reflexive" verb. In fact, you will find his discussions elsewhere on this very matter quite interesting. - Janice, Aug 21, 2009

Rather I believe I understand him to be explaining to you that the action in your particular repeat does reflect, go back on, itself. Again, in English we would likely use the passive. "The scene was repeated five times." - Janice, Aug 21, 2009

Many thanks Janice. I think I understand now. Sorry for being slow but as a beginner in Spanish I want to try to fully understand the grammer. I'm sure as I progress I will come across this again. - casarosa, Aug 21, 2009

Remember that reflexive pronouns are used for all pronominal uses: reciprocal, passive, reflexive , detransitizing, impersonal, so if one talks about reflexive pronouns it does not mean we are talking about verbs being used reflexively. - 0074b507, Aug 23, 2009

Answer 1

emphasized textI think it is because you have to say "what" ...gets repeated... five times. And the thing that gets repeated five times is the scene itself.

In English, it is ok to say the scene repeats five times, I suppose, but would you really express it that way if trying to be absolutely clear? Wouldn't you perhaps say that the scene is repeated five times. I think that in English we would probably use the passive voice to express this same thing, saying that the scene was/is repeated five times.

In short, the "se" refers to the scene itself and it the "object" (in grammar called the direct object, I have learned) of the verb. With repetir, you have to say what was repeated.

One use of repetir without the "se" (as a transitive verb) is: "Repeat your name, please!", which is an example given in the dictionary here at SpanishDict.com. Have a look.

You will read there that repetirse is what is called a pronomial verb. You can search on "se" or "pronomial" to find longer, interesting threads about the use of such verbs and you will find other interesting uses for "se", too.

Answer 2

OK but what extra information does adding the "se" give you?

It turns a weird sentence like "The scene repeats 5 times" into a normal "The scene repeats itself 5 times". The extra "itself" is called reflexive pronoun, like "se" in Spanish. Why is it so hard to understand that adding "se", which is literally translated as "itself" here, becomes a normal sentence, exactly like it does in English? What is the problem with making a Spanish sentence EXACTLY like in English?

Ok, I cannot guarantee that "The scene repeats 5 times" is incorrect, but I've never heard such a thing; I've always heard "repeats itself". In any case, in Spanish is a must, and I've outlined the reasons why many times before: "repeat" is a transitive verb, and in that sentence, it is intransitive. To detransitivize a verb in Spanish, you need "se".

Look carefully, Neil. Lazarus has not said that the verb is reflexive in this post, but rather that the "se" has the function of being reflexive....a reflexive pronoun. - Janice, Aug 21, 2009

"Why is it so hard to understand..." What a terrible thing to say to a learner - I hope you're ashamed when you read your comment afresh. - Martyn, Aug 22, 2009

That is a cruel thing to say to a learner, it takes a little courage just to ask a question - thowell476, Nov 12, 2014

Answer 3

Wouldn't "La escena con el camarero repite cinco veces" mean the same?

Why? Would you say in English "The scene with the waiter repeats five times"? Repeat... what? It is not even right in English. Why should it be correct in Spanish, if it is plain wrong in English? It doesn't make sense.

OK but what extra information does adding the "se" give you? - casarosa, Aug 20, 2009

The "se" in Spanish is required and tells you that it is the scene itself that is repeated. - Janice, Aug 20, 2009

But I actually came here to comment on your answer, Lazarus. As I noted above, one would probably use the passive to express this and say that the scene was repeated five times. However, although I would not myself under too many circumstances ..(cont.) - Janice, Aug 20, 2009

say something such as "it repeated again and again", I am not sure that it is actually incorrect in English and fairly sure one might hear the verb used in that manner. - Janice, Aug 20, 2009

It is (in English which I might not myself use, but do not know is wrong) the scene which repeats five times. There, I said it. It did not sound wrong to me. Was it? I don´t really know. - Janice, Aug 20, 2009

Answer 4

Many thanks Janice. I think I understand it a bit better now. Also I think you use "se" if you are describing a process according to my Spanish course. For example "Primero se asa la carne en el horno. Después se prepara la salsa con el jugo de la carne." However I'm not sure that repeating something as described in my original sentence would be classed as a process.

Thanks again Neil

Indeed, which is why I suggested that you might want to have a look at some of the other interesting uses of "se". Lazarus posted a very long entry on the subject. I will try to find it for you. - Janice, Aug 20, 2009

Answer 5

more questions about se

Thank you, Quentin. I think I know how to do it finally and have done so now in later posts. - Janice, Aug 23, 2009

Answer 6

I found a good link for you, Neil. With clear explanations. It was in the reference section.

Transitive and intransitive constructions use of se by Lazarus

Answer 7

Here is another link, and in it, Samdie tells you where to go to get more information, too.

link text

You are supposed to delete the "link text" and enter the name that you desire for the link. See my post above. - 0074b507, Aug 20, 2009

Oh thank you!! I will try that at the next opportunity. - Janice, Aug 20, 2009

Answer 8

I copied the shortcut. Let us see if that is what works to get you there. http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/9837/more-questions-about-selink text

Answer 9

Here is the first thread I came across:

More questions about se

If I can figure out how one gets the link, I will post it so you can find it easily.