Subjunctive Scenarios
This is an extension of my earlier post about "el hecho de que" and the use of the subjunctive. Basically, I am going to create different scenarios and try to justify their use of the subjunctive or indicative based on the context, etc. Please correct me if any of my analysis is wrong:
Scenario 1: Una mujer está en un cuarto de su casa, llorando porque su hijo ha salido para la universidad, y le echa de menos a él. El esposo de la mujer pasa por el cuarto, y ve que su esposa llore. *(Note: is that a correct use of the subjunctive, because we have already established that she is crying...?)
Hombre) ¿Qué te entristece?
Mujer) Me entristece que nuestro hijo - ¡mi chiquito! - haya salido para la universidad. Ayy... espero que todo le vaya bien... Tal vez debería llamarlo.
Hombre) ¡No! Ya tiene 18 años... déjalo descansar y disfrutar de su nueva vida independiente. Ahora no necesita tu ayuda.
^So... I used the subjunctive with "haya salido" because the husband of the mother obviously knows that their own son has left for college... she does not need to declare this to him.
Scenario 2: La madre habla por teléfono con su amiga que no sabe que su hijo haya salido. La amiga puede detectar la tristeza en la voz de la madre.
Amiga) ¿Qué pasa? Me suenas triste. ¿Qué te entristece?
Madre) Me entristece que mi hijo ha salido para la unviersidad.
Amiga) ¿De veras? ¿Salió hoy? No lo sabía. Pues, esto pasa a cada madre cuyo hijo sale para la universidad. Recuerdo bien la vez cuando mi hija salió... lloré un muchísimo. Es que, los hemos cuidado por su vida entera, y es difícil dejarlos.
Madre) ¡Eso es la verdad! Sigo recordando los momentos de su niñez... cuando solamente era un bebé. Y ahora... ¡cómo ha crecido!
^So, in this example, I used the indicative with "ha salido", because the mother was informing her friend that her son had left for college... she did not already know this. If the mother was to talk to her husband, her friend (now knowing that her son has left for college), and someone else who does not know about her son's departure, I would assume she would use "ha salido..", declaring the fact for the new person who has not been informed about his leaving.
Am I correct in my analysis of these scenarios? Also, please feel free to correct any grammar or wording in my scenarios. I know this an incredibly long post, but hopefully it will help others with the same questions/concerns that I have been having.
10 Answers
Scenario 1: Una mujer está en un cuarto de su casa, llorando porque su hijo ha salido para la universidad, y le echa de menos a él. El esposo de la mujer pasa por el cuarto, y ve que su esposa llore. *(Note: is that a correct use of the subjunctive, because we have already established that she is crying...?)
Wrong! It should be "llora".
^So... I used the subjunctive with "haya salido" because the husband of the mother obviously knows that their own son has left for college... she does not need to declare this to him.
In a way, yes, but the structure used in the first place, "Me entristece que..." is all about saying what makes you sad, and not to inform about facts, even if people who didn't know about it learn something new, because that is not the original intention of the person who said that. If you want to declare facts, you don't start by saying "Me entristece que..."; you only use this when you want to declare how you feel. The facts that make you feel, real or not, are not there because you specifically want to declare them. It is rather unusual -but not impossible- to use a declaration in these cases.
Scenario 2: La madre habla por teléfono con su amiga que no sabe que su hijo haya salido
Wrong! Here, the mother doesn't know the her son has left, and apparently, neither do you, for it is not declared. So, has he left or not? The answer is either yes, or not. In these cases, the correct sentence is "...no sabe si su hijo ha salido...", where exceptionally, it is the condition that is declared.
Madre) Me entristece que mi hijo ha salido para la unviersidad.
Interesting case, but although it is definitely more justified than in the previous scenario, it still sounds unusual, because one does not normally expect a declaration here. It would be more normal to say:
Lo triste es que mi hijo ha salido para la universidad. Lo que me entristece es que mi hijo ha salido para la universidad.
Both attributive constructions where the declaration is fairly straight forward, and "me entristece" itself is subordinated to a main structure. These emphatic structures, unlike mere emotional appreciations like "Me gusta que...", allow to make both declarations and judgements through the use of two linked subordinate clauses in a main sentence.
Amiga) ¿De veras? ¿Salió hoy? No lo sabía. Pues, esto le pasa a cada madre cuyo hijo sale para la universidad
This "cada" is more common in English. In Spanish, we tend to say more "a todas las madres".
Madre) ¡Eso es la verdad!
I don't know whether this is common in other countries, but to me, it sounds foreign. I'd say "¡Es verdad!", or any of the several idiomatic expressions available here (many of them are regional).
Okay. Well, thank you soooooo much for your invaluable help in understanding this tricky part of the subjunctive. 
I'll be back with more questions if I have any... 
"Me gusta que me ayuden." The main point is to declare you like something. "Me gusta eso" could be said and not drastically change the meaning of the sentence, since "me gusta" is the true declaration.
Correct!
Saying "Me gusta que me ayudan" would be like "I like that they help me, and by the way, they help me."
Correct!
"Me gusta cuando me ayudan." (Two declarations: I like something. They help me.) "Me entristece cuando no me hacen caso." (Two declarations: Something saddens me. They don't pay attention to me.)
Correct!
Me gusta cuando me ayudan
Me entristece cuando no me hacen caso
Okay, so, one last time, just to make sure I truly understand this :
"Me gusta que me ayuden." The main point is to declare you like something. "Me gusta eso" could be said and not drastically change the meaning of the sentence, since "me gusta" is the true declaration. Saying "Me gusta que me ayudan" would be like "I like that they help me, and by the way, they help me."
"Me entristece que no me hagan caso." The main point is to declare that something saddens you. "Me entristece eso" could be said and not drastically change the meaning of the sentence, since "me entristece" is the true declaration, the thing you want others to know. Saying "Me entristece que me hacen caso" would be like "It saddens me that they are not paying attention to me, and by the way, they're not paying attention to me."
Basically... the true declaration is the emotion/liking... the rest is there just to expand on the emotion, sort of.
"Me gusta cuando me ayudan." (Two declarations: I like something. They help me.) "Me entristece cuando no me hacen caso." (Two declarations: Something saddens me. They don't pay attention to me.)
Yes?
So... does that hold true for the other examples I gave with "alegrar" and "entristecer"?
Me gusta cuando me ayudan
Me entristece cuando no me hacen caso
That's why "cuando" takes indicative
So... does that hold true for the other examples I gave with "alegrar" and "entristecer"?
Me gusta que me ayudes tanto, jeje.
Another quick question: When you use "cuando" with verbs of emotion, the indicative is used, correct?
Well... I don't know about verbs of emotion, but think of this:
- I like it when you come to see me (declarations: I like something. you come to see me)
- I like it when you will/may come to see me (????)
How can you like something that has never happened before? It only makes sense to say:
- I will like it when you'll come to see me.
In Spanish,
- Me gustará cuando vengas a verme.
Where you can't declare such a thing, of course.
That's why "cuando" takes indicative: because you can only like (right now) things that can be declared.
Another quick question: When you use "cuando" with verbs of emotion, the indicative is used, correct?
"Me gusta que mi hijo haya regraado de la universidad". vs. "Me gusta cuando mi hijo regresa de la universidad".
"Me alegro de que hayas venido". vs. "Me alegro cuando vienes".
"Me entristece que no quieras hacerlo". vs. "Me entristece cuando no quieres hacerlo."
So... with "Me entristece que haya salido" your main focus is to declare that something saddens you, and the "haya salido" is not a declaration/used to inform someone about something. You can easily say "Eso me entristece", with "eso" referring to the already established fact that the son has left, right?
Exactly.
The difference seems to be in "Me entristece que.." (subjunctive) and "Lo que me entristece es que..." with the rest of the sentence being its own declaration.
Exactly... except for that extra apostrophe in "it's". 
In a way, yes, but the structure used in the first place, "Me entristece que..." is all about saying what makes you sad, and not to inform about facts, even if people who didn't know about it learn something new, because that is not the original intention of the person who said that.
Okay... I think I've been over thinking things. I've been thinking more about the thoughts of the listeners/readers, other than the intentions of the speaker.
So... with "Me entristece que haya salido" your main focus is to declare that something saddens you, and the "haya salido" is not a declaration/used to inform someone about something. You can easily say "Eso me entristece", with "eso" referring to the already established fact that the son has left, right?
With "Lo triste es que mi hijo ha salido/Lo que me entristece es que mi hijo ha salido", you are declaring that the son has left, informing someone of that fact. The difference seems to be in "Me entristece que.." (subjunctive) and "Lo que me entristece es que..." with the rest of the sentence being it's own declaration.
Am I making sense with my analysis?
Scenario 2: La madre habla por teléfono con su amiga que no sabe que su hijo haya salido
Wrong! Here, the mother doesn't know the her son has left, and apparently, neither do you, for it is not declared. So, has he left or not? The answer is either yes, or not. In these cases, the correct sentence is "...no sabe si su hijo ha salido...", where exceptionally, it is the condition that is declared.
Yes, I guess I was thinking that the fact that she was crying was already established, but I understand now. I guess the whole established vs. non-established vs. assumed fact thing is what is confusing me. Thank you for your detailed answers.
