HomeQ&A¿Por qué se usa el subjuntivo con "sin que"?

¿Por qué se usa el subjuntivo con "sin que"?

0
votes

No entiendo la razón que se usa el subjuntivo después de la cláusula adverbial "sin que." Por ejemplo, en esta frase:
No puedo hacer nada sin que ellos lo sepan.
"I can't do anything without them knowing it."

¿Por qué usa el subjuntivo esa frase'

24445 views
updated JUN 9, 2009
posted by Nick-Cortina

11 Answers

1
vote

Let's stop and analyse this more carefully. These are declarations:

I do something
I do not do anything

Both require indicative. End of the story.

However, they are both simple sentences; there are no subordinate clauses in any of them, and therefore, no room for subjunctive. So, let's make complex sentences with subordinates, beginning with a simple sentence:

I remember it.

That's a simple declaration. If we want a more complex sentence, we can replace the d.o. pronoun with a subordinate clause:

I remember (that) you did it

Here we have two declarations, since you want to say two things:

1) I remember it
2) You did it

So both take indicative. The same would apply to:

I remember you didn't do it

with "I know it" and "You didn't do it". The subordinate clauses so far are "you did it" and "you didn't do it"; both clearly declared.

However, if you say:

I don't remember that you did it

(I know, "I don't remember you doing it" sounds better, but let me continue for the sake of the explanation). Here, you are saying:

1) I don't remember it
2) You did it.

Hold on! If you don't remember it, how come you are saying that you did it at the same time? If you don't remember it, you can't say whether you did it or not. You cannot declare it. Welcome to the world of subjunctive. English here relies on a different structure rather than a different mood.

Now, if you say "I don't remember that you did it", the sentence, as a whole, is a declaration, even though it contains a subordinate clause that does not contain a declaration. To determine whether you use subjunctive, you have to look at the subordinate clause, not at the main sentence, as they are normally declarations.

I don't think this is so preposterously illogical.

A-->B

~A-->~B

therefore B-->~~A

By the way, if A-->B, it doesn't follow that ~A-->~B, but you can conclude that ~B-->~A.

P.S. Please check also this: http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/show/9300/

updated ABR 28, 2011
posted by lazarus1907
0
votes

Does dar cuenta = to notice

The context that I often see used is:

darse cuenta de algo=to realize something

cuenta SpanishDict dictionary

updated JUN 10, 2009
posted by 0074b507
0
votes

thanks for your sharing on this site

simulation credit auto

updated JUN 9, 2009
posted by sandymiss
0
votes

Does dar cuenta = to notice

"Dar cuenta" has many meanings, but none of them are related to "to notice": to consume, report, account,...

"Darse cuenta" means "to notice", though.

Welcome to "Laz's House", by the way.

updated JUN 4, 2009
posted by lazarus1907
0
votes

Does dar cuenta = to notice

updated JUN 4, 2009
posted by ravensty
0
votes

Robert, you and I agree on a lot of things. I'm glad you're out there; otherwise I'd feel a bit lonely.

Please check this out: http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/show/9300/

updated JUN 4, 2009
posted by lazarus1907
0
votes

Sorry to drag out this discussion but I find it quite interesting.

I think the problem was due to the phrase used as an example.

Here is a phrase where I think it is obvious that we need to use the subjunctive:

Robé algo de la tienda sin que los vendedores se dieran cuenta.

I robbed something from the store without the sales staff noticing.

Here it is obvious that the act of "noticing" didn't happen so therefore can't be declared. Ergo, we use the subjunctive.

The problem with the example given was that the negation of the main clause cancels out (theoretically) the act of "not knowing" and therefore it becomes something "known"

In the case of "no creo que...no pienso que... etc." the negation of the main clause triggers the subjunctive but the negation of the first clause followed by "sin que" doesn't trigger the indicative.

That, for me, is what is interesting.

updated JUN 4, 2009
posted by Robert-Austin
0
votes

No lo entiendo, es muy dificil para mi.

updated JUN 3, 2009
posted by mossimos
0
votes

Porque si la subordinada fuera "ellos lo saben" en vez de "ellos lo sepan", estarías declarando que lo saben, entonces sería lo contrario de lo que quieres decir, así que debes usar subjuntivo.

For me, that is not as easy to comprehend as I would like. May I think out loud for a moment?

I do something......they know about it

I do not do anything... therefore implies.. they do not know about it

so if I used saben to declare:
....that they know about it
then that would be the opposite of what I was trying to say using

I do not do anything.

therefore I need the subjunctive.

What did they used to call these things in Logic 101? syllogisms?

A-->B
~A-->~B
therefore B-->~~A

updated JUN 3, 2009
posted by 0074b507
0
votes

No entiendo la razón que se usa el subjuntivo después de la cláusula adverbial "sin que." Por ejemplo, en esta frase:

No puedo hacer nada sin que ellos lo sepan.

Porque si la subordinada fuera "ellos lo saben" en vez de "ellos lo sepan", estarías declarando que lo saben, entonces sería lo contrario de lo que quieres decir, así que debes usar subjuntivo.

updated JUN 3, 2009
posted by lazarus1907
0
votes

No entiendo la razón **por qué **se usa el subjuntivo después de la cláusula adverbial "sin que." Por ejemplo, en esta frase:

No puedo hacer nada sin que ellos lo sepan.

"I can't do anything without them knowing it."

¿Por qué usa el subjuntivo esa frase?

I would say that in your example that:

it is because it is not *indicated *(like that choice of verbs') whether they actually know it or not.

It's similar to a contrary-to-fact , doubtful, improbable or indefinite if clause.
If I were to do it, they would know it. (In this example you have not declared whether you actually did it or not so the subjunctive would be required.) [I switched from did to were to do because did is the same in the indicative and subjunctive mood in English).

updated JUN 3, 2009
posted by 0074b507
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