HomeQ&AEl esta agotado y tirado atravesado sobre la cama;

El esta agotado y tirado atravesado sobre la cama;

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Azucena scene 38 ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

El esta agotado y tirado atravesado sobre la cama;
se ve muy guapísimo como un Adonis acostado allí.

He is sated and asleep sprawled across the bed;
he looks very handsome like Adonis lying there.

Su inquiedud de él es evidente, aún cuando está durmiendo;
su sangre joven poderoso quema la torpeza después del amor.

His restlessness is evident even though he is sleeping;
his powerful young blood burns through the post-coitus.

Ella esta peinándose el cabello ante un pequeño espejo en el cuarto;
ella esta simplemente contenta, fuerte adentro de su aspecto físico.

She is combing her hair before the room's small mirror;
she is simply content, strong within her physical being.

Su felicidad es simple e inmedíata mientras se peina;
su experíencia directa ocupa toda de su concentración.

Her happiness is simple and immediate as she is combing;
her direct experíence occupies all of her concentration.

Ella se siente a si misma mientras cepilla sus trenzas;
con el radio en el fondo está concentrada en naturaleza.

She senses herself with all of herself as she brushes her tresses;
with radio in the background she is concentrated in natural being.

El tiempo no significa nada ? tampoco su suerte, ni su destino;
ahora ella es una mujer ? algo ha cambiado en ella para siempre.

Time is nothing to her, neither is her fate, nor is her destiny;
she is now a woman - something had changed now for her forever.

ANY HELP WITH OUR EXPERIMENTAL NOVELA "AZUCENA" WILL BE APPRECIATED
EVEN IF IT IS A SMALL DETAIL, AN ACCENT MARK, OR ANOTHER CORRECTION.

4342 views
updated JUN 20, 2009
posted by Martin-Rizzi

13 Answers

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Thanks very much Heidita.

I made all the changes you suggested.

Super appreciated.

updated JUN 20, 2009
posted by Martin-Rizzi
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Una bella joven indígena esta lavando ropa en un lavadero de piedra
cerca de donde corre el agua en el patio de una cabaña hecha de adobe.

Los golpes de la ropa contra la piedra se oye repetidamente,
golpeando, raspando y salpicando con el vigor del lavado

Los movimientos del lavado son repetidos, fluidos, naturales;
mientras ella azota la ropa mojada con sus gestos expresivos.

Después de unos momentos, siguiendo el ritmo de su trabajo,
suavemente entona una canción de la radio de un amor perdido.

La tonada le sale, manteniendo la melodía a la perfección;
[del]en[/del] el sonido está lleno de [del]hay una [/del]autoconcentración y la soledad íntima.

Ella esta cantando para ella misma y para nadie más;
incansablemente, ella continúa lavando un pantalón.

updated JUN 15, 2009
posted by 00494d19
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In this scene she is brushing her hair, he is asleep, she sees him in the mirror;
they have had sex but she is not thinking of that, she is not really thinking of him
either; other than to notice how good-looking he is; she is absorbed in her physical
experience, the radio is playing she is listening to the radio and brushing her hair

this is not a victorian protagonist, she is a woman made in the violent clash
of blood of the spanish conquest of what is today mexico; so little a european
becasue her spanish blood and her indigeneous blood can neither one grip the other

She comes from a very poor family and all she has known is privation and hard work
her intellectual world her philosophy are pretty much contained in the lyrics of
a popular romantic song on the radio...

She believes in the world of the sentimental popular radio love song and doesnt
ever for a moment question this ethos for all that happens to her in this story.

She is listening to the radio all right. She is listening with all her might,
with the concentration of her physical non-sexual being, listening with her skin
to the radio love song and, with her happiness, absorbing it into her every pore!

updated JUN 15, 2009
posted by Martin-Rizzi
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votes

At other moments in the script, she is listening to this love song play on the radio;
its a sentimental popular song that plays on the radio at various places in the story.

updated MAY 31, 2009
posted by Martin-Rizzi
0
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Azucena scene 1 '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

THIS WOULD BE A PARTICULARLY GOOD SCENE TO NOT HAVE TOO MANY MISTAKES IN

Una bella joven indígena esta lavando ropa en un lavadero de piedra
cerca de donde corre agua en el patio de una cabaña hecha de adobe.

A pretty young indian girl is washing clothes on a rough rock
where water runs, in the dusty yard of an adobe brick cottage.

El ruido de la ropa contra la piedra se oye repetidamente,
golpeando, raspando y salpicando con el vigor del tallado.

The slap slap slap of the wet cloth smacks against the stone,
splashing, scraping, and rasping with the vigorous scrubbing.

Los movimientos del lavado son repetidos, fluidos, naturales;
mientras ella azota la ropa mojada con sus gestos expresivos.

The watery washing motions are repeated, fluid, natural;
she beats the damp clothing down with expressive gesture.

Después de unos momentos, siguiendo el ritmo de su trabajo,
suavemente entona una canción de la radio de un amor perdido.

After a few moments, in tune with the rhythm of her work,
she softly sings aloud a poignant radio song of lost love.

La tonada le sale, manteniendo la melodía a la perfección;
en el sonido hay una autoconcentración y la soledad íntima.

The melody comes from her as she holds the tune perfectly;
in the sound is self-concentration, and intimate solitude.

Ella esta cantando para ella misma y para nadie más;
incansablemente, ella continúa tallando un pantalón.

She is singing to herself, to nobody else;
tirelessly, she is scrubbing clean the pants.

updated MAY 31, 2009
posted by Martin-Rizzi
0
votes

In this scene the girl is not reflecting on sex -
She is ordinarily brushing her hair and listening
to the radio, to the same love song she had heard
when she had been washing the clothes in scene one.

updated MAY 31, 2009
posted by Martin-Rizzi
0
votes

hey Moe, receive greetings from Mexico, brother

In this scene, Azucena is brushing her hair before a small mirror on the wall
in which appears the image of Arturo, the bull-rider, who had picked her up
at a rodeo the night before; she did not go back home, not even to say good-bye
to her mother. Hers is a concentrated presence. Her own physicality is powerful
because she is a very poor girl who has only known privations, she is very strong
physically and full of natural vitality. She is as ignorant as they come, certainly.

Her experience as she is brushing her hair, is not of one of intellectual reflection.
Whatever effect the sex had on her is summed up in the line
**
she is now a woman - something has changed now in her forever.**

but this is NOT formulated by her as a thought, nor as an observation;
her knowledge could be said to be primarily physical
as her own experience is naturally immediate,
hers is a direct experience - how else to say it'

updated MAY 31, 2009
posted by Martin-Rizzi
0
votes

Line 9. Ella se siente a si misma mientras cepilla sus trenzas
She senses her own inner feelings as she now brushes her hair
[i]The Spanish phrase 'se siente si misma? translates as 'feels herself.?
To find a proper English meaning once again requires consideration of context.
Here is Azucena, in the rapture of loving. What is she doing? She is trying,
as some women would, to understand what she is feeling.

If she were an English or a Northamerican girl, that is what she might be doing.
But Azucena is a young campesina woman - she is NOT trying to discover what she is feeling!
Campesina girls typically do not reflect on their feelings, they experience their feelings,
Azucena is the Mexican woman who follows her heart, wherever that way goes. This is how these
women are. They love without regard for consequences. They give everything they are and have for love,
and they never look forward, never regret. To try to understand what one is feeling, is SO uncharacteristic
of these women. I don't know if anyone can understand this, still this is the palpable truth of how these women are.

Line 10. Con el radio en el fondo está concentrada en el naturaleza
I did a search through Google and found no references to the words
'concentrada en el naturaleza.? For me, even in Spanish, this is meaningless gibberash.
The radio is playing, but, she doesn't hear it.
Her mind is not in this space. All of the preceding lines
speak to an enraptured woman reminiscing about an overwhelming personal experience.
An experience she will never have again. There can be only one first kiss.
There can be only one first gift of her body.
The radio is used here only to demonstrate where her mind is.
Her mind is elsewhere. If you don't get this, you simply do not understand.

She is NOT thinking about sex.
Now what she is doing is brushing her hair and listening to the radio,

Line 11. El tiempo no significa nada ? tampoco su suerte, ni su destino
Time is nothing to her, neither is her fate nor is her destiny.
I have no changes to make here.

Line 12. Ahora ella es una mujer ? algo ha cambiado en ella para siempre
Now, she is a woman ? she is forever changed.
I have changed the English version here for effect.
It is stronger than 'Something had changed for her forever.?
The truth is, her experience has changed her forever
not only for herself but for everyone.
She will never see men in the same way again.
She will never see her sister women younger, or older, in the same way again.
She was Azucena with something missing. Now she is Azucena, the woman.
If you don't get this, you have missed the story.

**Azucena is NOT thinking about any of these things. Not at all. She feels the change in her
that is all. She knows she has changed. She feels she is now a woman. Every Mexican girl knows
that she will one day be a woman. Now she knows she is a woman. She doesnt know what this means.
She does not wonder what this means. She does not speculate as to what this means. All she is doing
is sitting there in front of the mirror feeling her happiness, which comes as much from her own self
sense of own raw physical presence as it does from the residue of her belief that she is loved.

Perhaps the following scene casts some light on the observations I have been making. Perhaps not.

In either case, I once again thank you for your worthy collaboration and appreciate you continuing help.**

updated MAY 27, 2009
posted by Martin-Rizzi
0
votes

Thanks very much Moe. Your review is helpful and appreciated.

Martin:

Sometimes I think I live on a different planet, not just in a different country.

''''' No worries, mate. I frequently feel this way myself.

Spanish = Red ? English = Blue

Line 1. **ÿl está agotada y tirado atravesado sobre la cama***

Your Spanish version includes the palabras 'de él.? They do not appear to belong here and I suggest they be removed

The verb estar in the 3rd person present tense is spelled 'está', a tilde was missed in your posting.*

He is exhausted and sprawled across the bed

*You have translated 'agotado? as 'sated'. I do not agree.

The better translation is 'exhausted.'*

''''' This work is not, strictly speaking a translation.

Some texts were composed in Spanish and some were composed in the English language.

Usually, the paired verses mean the same thing, but not always, precisely.

'I won't respond to every point, so we don't get bogged down.

Nonetheless, be assured I have carefully considered everything you have posted.

Line 3. Su inquietud es evidente, aún cuando está durmiendo

His tenseness is evident even while sleeping

*In your English version, it says 'his restlessness? is evident.

As a practical matter I don't see how he could be 'restless?

unless he is tossing and turning in a fitful kind of sleep.

In the preceding lines it has already been said that he is sprawled across the bed

and he is lying there. 'Restless? represents a conflict in the images presented.

The palabra 'inquietud? also translates as anxiety or tenseness.

The better translation here is 'tenseness? or 'tension'.*

Arturo is not a tense person. He is a bullrider. Tense bullriders dont last long.

Arturo is a restless person. This reference is his restlessness being evident even

while he is sleeping only means that his character or nature is not far under the

cover of his unconsciousness. This is NOT to say he is sleeping restlestly.

Line 4. Su sangre joven poderoso quema la torpeza después del armor.

His powerful young blood burns away any impurity of their encounter

*In you English version, it says 'burns through the post-coitus'.

This a meaningless combination of words. Further, 'as I said earlier,

'post-coitus? is clinical, cold and dispassionate.

The Spanish palabra 'torpeza? translates, among other meanings,

as impurity, unchastity, lewdness or obscenity.

Under the circumstances and following the immediately preceding event between him and Azucena,

these are the only reasonable words to look to for a proper translation.

He is eradicating any taint that society may attribute

to their recent gift to each other of their bodies.*

''''' Here "torpeza" means merely "lethargy"

**Su inquiedud es muy evidente, aún cuando el está durmiendo;

su sangre joven poderoso quema la torpeza después del amor.**

**His restlessness is evident even though he is sleeping;

powerful young blood is burning through his exhaustion. /color]

This scene is not about sex. They had sex privately after the previous scene closed.

[color=red]Ella está cepillando el cabello ante un espejo pequeño en el cuarto;

ella está simplemente contenta, fuerte adentro de su aspecto físico.**

**She is brushing her hair before the room's small mirror;

she is simply content, strong within her physical aspect.**

She is NOT reflecting on the sexual experience. She is simply content,

strong within her physical aspect. As a simple Mexican village woman,

she rarely intellectualizes, her experience is always largely immediate.

Line 7. Su felicidad es simple e inmediata mientras se peina

The word 'inmediata? does not have a tilde over the second letter 'i.'

Her happiness surrounds her while she is combs out her hair

[i]Your English line says, 'Her happiness is simple and complete.?

Again this is a meaningless collection of words that no-one will understand.

You must look at the context of what has gone on before

and ask how this expression can be given meaning in English.

''''W hereas I little doubt that "her happiness is simple and complete"

may have not have any point of reference to modern cosmopolitan people,

this phrase is exactly descriptive of the experience of the young girl.

**Su felicidad es simple e inmedíata cuando se cepilla;

su experíencia directa ocupa toda la de su atención.**

**Her happiness is simple and immediate as she brushes;

her direct experíence is occupying all of her attention,**

Direct experience means experience that is not looking backwards or forward,

experience that is not divided by calculations or considerations or speculation.

her experience is much more physical perhaps than that of anyone you have known.

updated MAY 27, 2009
posted by Martin-Rizzi
0
votes

Martin:

Sometimes I think I live on a different planet, not just in a different country.I have again reviewed the English version of your 'Scene 38', 'El está agotada'. This time, I also had a hard look at the Spanish version. These are the results of this review. I would write the Spanish and the English this way this way: Spanish = Red ? English = Blue

Line 1. ÿl está agotada y tirado atravesado sobre la cama***
Your Spanish version includes the palabras 'de él.? They do not appear to belong here and I suggest they be removed
The verb estar in the 3rd person present tense is spelled 'está', a tilde was missed in your posting.*
**He is exhausted and sprawled across the bed

You have translated 'agotado? as 'sated'. I do not agree. The better translation is 'exhausted.'

Line 2. Se ve muy guapísimo como un Adonis acostada allí
Lying there, he looks as handsome as an Adonis
Your word-for-word translation is not the best way to say the same thing in English. I have re-orderd the words so that the line has a better presentation and flow in English.
In English, it is better to say 'looks as handsome as? and not 'very handsome like'.

Line 3. Su inquietud es evidente, aún cuando está durmiendo
His tenseness is evident even while sleeping
In your English version, it says 'his restlessness? is evident. As a practical matter I don't see how he could be 'restless? unless he is tossing and turning in a fitful kind of sleep. In the preceding lines it has already been said that he is sprawled across the bed and he is lying there. 'Restless? represents a conflict in the images presented. The palabra 'inquietud? also translates as anxiety or tenseness. The better translation here is 'tenseness? or 'tension'.

Line 4. Su sangre joven poderoso quema la torpeza después del armor.
His powerful young blood burns away any impurity of their encounter
In you English version, it says 'burns through the post-coitus'. This a meaningless combination of words. Further, 'as I said earlier, 'post-coitus? is clinical, cold and dispassionate. The Spanish palabra 'torpeza? translates, among other meanings, as impurity, unchastity, lewdness or obscenity. Under the circumstances and following the immediately preceding event between him and Azucena, these are the only reasonable words to look to for a proper translation. He is eradicating any taint that society may attribute to their recent gift to each other of their bodies.

Line 5. Ella está peinandose el cabello ante un pequeño espejo en el cuarto
The verb estar in the 3rd person present tense is spelled 'está', a tilde was missed in your posting.
The verb peinandose has no tilde over the 'a'.

She is combing her hair before the room's small mirror

Line 6. Ella esta simplemente contenta, fuerte adentro de su aspect físico
She is happy and content, her appearance is one of calm self assurance
Your English version says? 'strong within her physical being.? This is a meaningless collection of words. It will not be understood by any English speaker. I discovered that 'aspect físico? can be better translated to English as 'appearance'. This makes much more sense in English when considering the immediately antecedent event that has brought her to this almost euphoric state.

Line 7. Su felicidad es simple e inmediata mientras se peina
The word 'inmediata? does not have a tilde over the second letter 'i.'
Her happiness surrounds her while she is combs out her hair
Your English line says, 'Her happiness is simple and complete.? Again this is a meaningless collection of words that no-one will understand. You must look at the context of what has gone on before and ask how this expression can be given meaning in English. I really question whether it has any more meaning in Spanish, but that is not my strength. In the context of previous and present events, I have said that 'Her happiness surrounds her? as in surrounds her like an aura of peace and tranquillity. In order to respect your wish for brevity, I have limited my use of words.

Line 8. Su experiencia directa ocupa toda su concentración
The palabra,'experiencia? does not have a tilde over the 1st letter 'i.'
You may want to examine the source document for this line because I could not find any reason for the palabra 'directa? to be here. It adds nothing to experincia but confusion.
Images and feelings of her most recent experience fill her head.
Once again, in the context of what is happening, this is the only reasonable interpretation and translation. The version 'Her direct experience occupies all of her concentration? is gobbledygook and nonsense talk.

Line 9. Ella se siente a si misma mientras cepilla sus trenzas
She senses her own inner feelings as she now brushes her hair
The Spanish phrase 'se siente si misma? translates as 'feels herself.? To find a proper English meaning once again requires consideration of context. Here is Azucena, in the rapture of loving. What is she doing? She is trying, as some women would, to understand what she is feeling. It's new. It's different. It's almost overwhelming. She does it almost vacantly and automatically. This is classic symbolism for a woman enraptured.

This is continued in the next entry.

updated MAY 26, 2009
posted by Moe
0
votes

Line 10. Con el radio en el fondo está concentrada en el naturaleza
I did a search through Google and found no references to the words 'concentrada en el naturaleza.? For me, even in Spanish, this is meaningless gibberash.
The radio is playing, but, she doesn't hear it.
Her mind is not in this space. All of the preceding lines speak to an enraptured woman reminiscing about an overwhelming personal experience. An experience she will never have again. There can be only one first kiss. There can be only one first gift of her body. The radio is used here only to demonstrate where her mind is. Her mind is elsewhere. If you don't get this, you simply do not understand.

Line 11. El tiempo no significa nada ? tampoco su suerte, ni su destino
Time is nothing to her, neither is her fate nor is her destiny.
I have no changes to make here.

Line 12. Ahora ella es una mujer ? algo ha cambiado en ella para siempre
Now, she is a woman ? she is forever changed.
I have changed the English version here for effect. It is stronger than 'Something had changed for her forever.? The truth is, her experience has changed her forever not only for herself but for everyone. She will never see men in the same way again. She will never see her sister women younger, or older, in the same way again. She was Azucena with something missing. Now she is Azucena, the woman. If you don't get this, you have missed the story.

updated MAY 26, 2009
posted by Moe
0
votes

2.The use of the term 'post-coitus', which you did not use in your Spanish version, needs to be softened. To me it represents a somewhat clinical view of the previous act.

His restlessness is evident even though he is sleeping,
his powerful young blood burning through his exhaustion.

At paragraph 3 I did not understand why having satisfied a sensual urgency would make her 'strong within her physical being'. You should bring the Spanish version into agreement with my English version unless there is some Spanish idiom or figure of speech in which 'strong within her physical being? has a special meaning.

4.Her happiness is innocent and pure as she combs herself,
her reminiscence fully occupies her mind.

Her sense of strength within her physical being
is not a product of the sexual experience.

She is a country girl,
she has been strong since she was a child.
Her strength is partly due to the fact
that she doesnt think too much about things
and doesnt much indulge in reminiscences
(at least not yet)

At paragraph 4, I did not understand the concept of happiness which is 'simple and immediate'. I changed it to 'innocent and pure? to mean good, proper and without sin. You should bring the Spanish version into agreement unless there is some Spanish idiom or figure of speech in which 'simple and immediate? has a special meaning.

The experience of a village girl is very different than that of a modern person.
Her happiness is born in the immediacy of her experience not in any consideration
or reflection. She is not thinking about sex. She is brushing her hair listening
to the radio. Her own sense of her physical self is always present with her.

In the 3rd and 4th paragraphs, she was combing her hair. In paragraph 5, she is brushing it. Did you intend this change in her action? I think it's a good change: I just want to be sure you are aware of it. Also, in this paragraph, 'She senses herself with all of herself? has been changed I have also suggested that she doesn't even notice the sound of the radio. Here too, you may want to bring the Spanish into harmony with this English.

Ella esta cepillando el cabello ante un pequeño espejo en el cuarto;
ella esta simplemente contenta, fuerte adentro de su aspecto físico.

She is brushing her hair before the room's small mirror;
she is simply content, strong within her physical being.

Su felicidad es simple e inmedíata mientras se cepilla;
su experíencia directa ocupa toda la de su concentración

Her happiness is simple and immediate as she brushes it;
her direct experíence occupies all of her concentration.

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

She is listening to the radio all right
- to the songs, and to the commercials.
She is experiencing her own deep happiness,
now that she believes that she is loved.

updated MAY 26, 2009
posted by Martin-Rizzi
0
votes

Here I am again Martin and again only as regards the English version. I have also tried to get my editorial comments and clutter out of the body of my re-written work. That way you get a better idea on first seeing and reading it as to how it will look.

  1. He is sated and asleep sprawled across the bed;

he looks very handsome like Adonis lying there.

  1. His restlessness is evident even though he is sleeping;

his powerful young blood burns through the post-coitus.

  1. She is combing her hair before the room's small mirror;

she is simply content, strong within her physical being.

  1. Her happiness is simple and immediate as she is combing;

her direct experíence occupies all of her concentration.

  1. She senses herself with all of herself as she brushes her tresses;

with radio in the background she is concentrated in natural being.

  1. Time is nothing to her, neither is her fate, nor is her destiny;

she is now a woman - something had changed now for her forever.

*1.While you have used 'sated? correctly, it is not the best word for modern English usage. At this point in your story, the audience knows what he has just completed, so, there is another way to say this. I have used 'burning desire satisfied.?

2.The use of the term 'post-coitus', which you did not use in your Spanish version, needs to be softened. To me it represents a somewhat clinical view of the previous act.

At paragraph 3 I did not understand why having satisfied a sensual urgency would make her 'strong within her physical being'. You should bring the Spanish version into agreement with my English version unless there is some Spanish idiom or figure of speech in which 'strong within her physical being? has a special meaning.

At paragraph 4, I did not understand the concept of happiness which is 'simple and immediate'. I changed it to 'innocent and pure? to mean good, proper and without sin. You should bring the Spanish version into agreement unless there is some Spanish idiom or figure of speech in which 'simple and immediate? has a special meaning.

In the 3rd and 4th paragraphs, she was combing her hair. In paragraph 5, she is brushing it. Did you intend this change in her action? I think it's a good change: I just want to be sure you are aware of it. Also, in this paragraph, 'She senses herself with all of herself? has been changed I have also suggested that she doesn't even notice the sound of the radio. Here too, you may want to bring the Spanish into harmony with this English.

I have tried to phrase the last paragraph into stronger English where each idea is its own active sentence driving home an emotional idea for the audience.

Here is how I have re-written the piece:*

1.His burning desire satisfied, he sleeps sprawled across the bed;
he looks as handsome as an Adonis, resting as he is.

2.His restlessness is evident even as he sleeps;
his powerful young blood burns through his now satisfied desire.

3.She combs her hair before the room's small mirror;
She is wholly content and at peace within her mind, body and spirit.

4.Her happiness is innocent and pure as she combs herself,
her reminiscence fully occupies her mind.

5.She senses her every nerve and fibre as she now brushes her tresses;
although the radio plays quietly; she is oblivious to its sound.

6.Time means nothing to her, neither does her fate or destiny,
She has become a woman. She is forever changed.

My best regards to you and a wish that this project works as well for you as you want it to.
Moe

updated MAY 26, 2009
posted by Moe
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