Los muchachos aún no son hombres crecidos, estan todavía ...
The country lads are not yet grown men; they are still trying on the suit
of life; he is the leader of these boys with his precious black-eyed prize..
As the object of their admiration, clutching the edge of his serape,
she is contented, rapt; she feels complete next to him in the moment.
The boys gambol and mock punch each other she's the focus of attention;
yet none of them looks at her, only at each other with their merry gibing.
ANY HELP ON A GOOD TRANSLATION OF THIS PASSAGE INTO SPANISH IS APPRECIATED
6 Answers
The country lads are not yet grown men; they are still trying on the suit
of life; he is the leader of these boys with his precious black-eyed prize..
As the object of their admiration, clutching the edge of his serape,
she is contented, rapt; she feels complete next to him in the moment.
The boys gamble and mock punch each other she's the focus of attention;
yet none of them looks at her, only at each other with their merry gibbing.
ANY HELP ON A GOOD TRANSLATION OF THIS PASSAGE INTO SPANISH IS APPRECIATED
I dont know the word sarape.
Martin, as you wish for a translation, let's see if you can get help on "vocabulary".
Gambol is generally only used to describe the play of animals such as fawns, rabbits or infrequently, very young children. I suggest to apply it to anyone over the age of say 16 or 17 would not be common modern usage.
'Gibe? is also not a word in common usage, except in the job of sailing a sailboat where it has a completely different meaning.
''' I think both of these are good English language words. Maybe they are not much used in modern conversation, still both of them are concise and descriptive.
You must be thinking of the word "jib" with your comment about a sailboat.
And then to make some comments on the Spanish version of your work, consider the following:
midiendo el saco de la vida = measuring the coat of the life
I am not aware that there is a similar English metaphor or simile to this Spanish language metaphor.
''' Metaphors do not require precedents. The issue is not familiarity (which tends
to triteness and cliché); rather, whether the sense of meaning comes across.
For that reason, I suggested changing the English description.
ojos negros = black (dark) eyes
I understand but do not like the description 'black-eyed'. Your intended meaning is to describe the deep black colour or 'her? eyes. Unfortunately, in English, black-eyed may also mean to have black bruising around the eyes as a result of a punch in the eye. This is sometimes more commonly called a 'shiner'. Also some accident causing an injury to the area of the eye may leave it blackened.. Almost always, the difference in meaning would be known from the context, but, it might be better to avoid it.
''' In the context, there is NO reason to think that she has a "black eye" (yet)
objeto de sus admiraciónes = object of their admiration
Here we have more than 1 guy so we have more than one form of admiration. Would 'suS? and 'admirationES? be better here in Spanish?
'''yes: i think this is correct: a change has been made in the master document
Thanks!
agarrándose al borde = taking hold of or grabbing the edge
I was not able to imagine under what circumstances 'she? might take hold of or grab his outer covering. Somehow, I could see her, in my imagination, gripping his serape when resting beside him or when frightened. Otherwise, the picture didn't come to me.
''' She moves close to him
as the friends gather round
she clutches the edge of his serape
Los chavos = Guys (Ante Meridian & Central America & Mexico)
I added the idea that the guys are 'country bumpkins'. I think most North Americans understand the concept that bumpkins are not sophisticated nor clever but are simple honest people. They are seen as awkward, simple and rustic.
chivean y juegan a pelearse uno con otro = (I presume you meant CHIVAN and not CHIVEAN)so that the phrase translates as 'annoying and play fighting with one another?
''' "chivear" is a common popular expression - it may not be correct formal usage
Based on my above comments and findings I have edited and re-written my own English language version of your work as follows:
The guys in the pack are all country bumpkins. They are still naive and maturing. They are trying to establish their place in life and in their world. For all their loyalty to their leader, they still covet his prize.
His prize is his precious dark-eyed woman-child. She is an innocent who is contented and enraptured just to be next to him. She believes that just to be allowed to grip his serape completes her. She is only complete when she is with him.
The guys poke, jab, tumble and wrestle with each other in mock displays of manhood. They want to catch her attention. Each of them wants to win her away from their leader who they know holds her without even touching her. She is the reason for their hopeless macho behaviour. Yet, they dare not look at her with wanting eyes. They only show off in the vain hope of catching her eye and her attention.
''' Not bad. Only uses twice as many words to say just about the same thing.
Dear Martin:
This would be a lot easier if we were in the same place together having a face-to-face meeting. I guess I'll just have to try to make the best of this process.
To begin, I want to comment in some of the words you have defined to Heidita. Here are my few comments:
gambol = to jump or skip about in play; to frolic
gibe (gibing) = to jeer or taunt
You have correctly defined these words. But, I offer some ideas concerning the modern usage, in North America, of those words.
Gambol is generally only used to describe the play of animals such as fawns, rabbits or infrequently, very young children. I suggest to apply it to anyone over the age of say 16 or 17 would not be common modern usage.
'Gibe? is also not a word in common usage, except in the job of sailing a sailboat where it has a completely different meaning.
And then to make some comments on the Spanish version of your work, consider the following:
midiendo el saco de la vida = measuring the coat of the life
I am not aware that there is a similar English metaphor or simile to this Spanish language metaphor. For that reason, I suggested changing the English description.
ojos negros = black (dark) eyes
I understand but do not like the description 'black-eyed'. Your intended meaning is to describe the deep black colour or 'her? eyes. Unfortunately, in English, black-eyed may also mean to have black bruising around the eyes as a result of a punch in the eye. This is sometimes more commonly called a 'shiner'. Also some accident causing an injury to the area of the eye may leave it blackened.. Almost always, the difference in meaning would be known from the context, but, it might be better to avoid it.
objeto de sus admiraciónes = object of their admiration
Here we have more than 1 guy so we have more than one form of admiration. Would 'suS? and 'admirationES? be better here in Spanish?
agarrándose al borde = taking hold of or grabbing the edge
I was not able to imagine under what circumstances 'she? might take hold of or grab his outer covering. Somehow, I could see her, in my imagination, gripping his serape when resting beside him or when frightened. Otherwise, the picture didn't come to me.
Los chavos = Guys (Ante Meridian & Central America & Mexico)
I added the idea that the guys are 'country bumpkins'. I think most North Americans understand the concept that bumpkins are not sophisticated nor clever but are simple honest people. They are seen as awkward, simple and rustic.
chivean y juegan a pelearse uno con otro = (I presume you meant CHIVAN and not CHIVEAN)so that the phrase translates as 'annoying and play fighting with one another?
Based on my above comments and findings I have edited and re-written my own English language version of your work as follows:
The guys in the pack are all country bumpkins. They are still naive and maturing. They are trying to establish their place in life and in their world. For all their loyalty to their leader, they still covet his prize.
His prize is his precious dark-eyed woman-child. She is an innocent who is contented and enraptured just to be next to him. She believes that just to be allowed to grip his serape completes her. She is only complete when she is with him.
The guys poke, jab, tumble and wrestle with each other in mock displays of manhood. They want to catch her attention. Each of them wants to win her away from their leader who they know holds her without even touching her. She is the reason for their hopeless macho behaviour. Yet, they dare not look at her with wanting eyes. They only show off in the vain hope of catching her eye and her attention.
I'm uncertain if you expected this 2nd reply to your posting. If not, I apologise. Otherwise, I hope you find it to your liking.
Moe
Querido Martin:
Let me see if I can re-write your English work to determine if I have retained the meaning, context, flavour and nuances of your original work. I hope my different English will be strike more at the poetic heart of an English reader (or listener). Mine will still be far from 'the best? suggestion. Anyway, here goes:
The boys, all country bumpkins, are still naive and yet growing. They are still trying to establish their place in life and in their world. For all their loyalty to their leader, they still covet his prize.
His prize is his precious magnetically pretty doe-eyed woman-child. She is an innocent who is contented and rapt just to be next to him. Just to be allowed to touch his serape completes her own being.
The boys tumble and wrestle in mock displays of manhood to catch her attention. Each of them wants to win her away from the leader that they know holds her without even touching her. She is the reason for the boy's strutting and preening behaviour. Yet, they dare not look at her with wanting eyes. They only romp and prance in the vain hope of catching her eye and her attention.
Serape is a good word. It is in SpanishDict.com's dictionary with a proper description. I do not know if 'doe-eyed? translates to Spanish but there may be a similar adjective in Spanish. In English it means (among other things):
1.- having large, soft, limpid eyes, like those af a deer or rabbit;
or
2.- naive; guileless; childlike
I do not know if this is any value to you. It is just one attempt to take up Heidita's suggestion to get help on vocabulary. This was fun for me. I hope you enjoy it.
Moe
Yes friend thanks. Your expanded description fairly captures this scene.
Language is concentrated for sake of consistency with the rest of the work.
Here is the current Spanish language version. We are not totally concerned
with fidelity of translation so much as with the integrity of the meanings.
i.e.Spanish and English versions at times don't exactly say the same thing.
however, usually they do, and as such can be useful language learning tools
Los muchachos aún no son hombres crecidos, estan todavía midiendo el saco
de la vida. Es el líder del grupo; con su precioso premio de ojos negros .
Como el objeto de su admiración, agarrándose al borde de su zarape,
ella está feliz, raptada, se siente completa junto a él en el momento.
Los chavos chivean y juegan a pelearse uno con otro, ella es el foco;
sin embargo, ninguno la mira, únicamente unos a otros rápidos vistazos.
THIS IS AN EXPERIMENTAL COLLABORATIVE WORK THAT HAS BEEN COMPOSED OVER DECADES
USEFUL IMPROVEMENTS TO EITHER LANGUAGE TEXT WILL BE INCOPRORATED IN THE DOCUMENT
Thank you!
The country lads are not yet grown men; they are still trying on the suit
of life; he is the leader of these boys with his precious black-eyed prize..
As the object of their admiration, clutching the edge of his serape,
she is contented, rapt; she feels complete next to him in the moment.
The boys gamble and mock punch each other she's the focus of attention;
yet none of them looks at her, only at each other with their merry gibbing.
ANY HELP ON A GOOD TRANSLATION OF THIS PASSAGE INTO SPANISH IS APPRECIATED
I dont know the word sarape.
Mrtin, as you wish for a translation, let's see if you can get helpp oon "vocabulary".
gambol = to jump or skip about in play; to frolic
gibe (gibing) = to jeer or taunt
Querido Martin:
Let me see if I can re-write your English work to determine if I have retained the meaning, context, flavour and nuances of your original work. I hope my different English will be strike more at the poetic heart of an English reader (or listener). Mine will still be far from 'the best? suggestion. Anyway, here goes:
The boys, all country bumpkins, are still naive and yet growing. They are still trying to establish their place in life and in their world. For all their loyalty to their leader, they still covet his prize.
His prize is his precious magnetically pretty doe-eyed woman-child. She is an innocent who is contented and rapt just to be next to him. Just to be allowed to touch his serape completes her own being.
The boys tumble and wrestle in mock displays of manhood to catch her attention. Each of them wants to win her away from the leader that they know holds her without even touching her. She is the reason for the boy's strutting and preening behaviour. Yet, they dare not look at her with wanting eyes. They only romp and prance in the vain hope of catching her eye and her attention.
Serape is a good word. It is in SpanishDict.com's dictionary with a proper description. I do not know if 'doe-eyed? translates to Spanish but there may be a similar adjective in Spanish. In English it means (among other things):
1.- having large, soft, limpid eyes, like those af a deer or rabbit;
or
2.- naive; guileless; childlike
I do not know if this is any value to you. It is just one attempt to take up Heidita's suggestion to get help on vocabulary. This was fun for me. I hope you enjoy it.
Moe
