I know that "El arte moderno" is correct and that "el agua clara" is correct but..

1
vote

What is the reason for the use of "moderno"? Is it un tipo de arte; por eso, moderno modifica la palabra tipo'

4550 views
updated MAY 1, 2010
posted by ltigo

14 Answers

1
vote

I don't understand the question, látigo. Could you rephrase it'

updated MAY 1, 2010
posted by lazarus1907
1
vote

I think the confusion comes from the fact that arte is both masculine and feminine.

updated MAY 1, 2010
posted by 00bacfba
1
vote

I'm certainly confused. I understand words like recepcionista being masculine and femine, but arte? How do you know which way to use it?

James Santiago said:

I think the confusion comes from the fact that arte is both masculine and feminine.

>

updated MAY 1, 2010
posted by Natasha
1
vote

Only a partial answer, but arte is always feminine in the plural, and seems to be masculine more often in the singular.

updated MAY 1, 2010
posted by 00bacfba
1
vote

I think Látigo wants to know if the words "moderno" and "tipo" are synonymous when talking about art.

updated MAY 1, 2010
posted by Eddy
1
vote

I'm pretty sure he's asking about gender agreement. That's why he mentioned "el agua clara."

updated MAY 1, 2010
posted by 00bacfba
1
vote

The word arte is feminine, so why is moderno in the masculine form not moderna?
Do you all not agree that it is el arte moderno, el arte hispano, but el arte magnífica is also correct'

updated MAY 1, 2010
posted by ltigo
1
vote

Double-click on the word arte here and you'll see that arte is not just feminine, but is also masculine.

updated MAY 1, 2010
posted by 00bacfba
1
vote

látigo said:

The word arte is feminine, so why is moderno in the masculine form not moderna? Do you all not agree that it is el arte moderno, el arte hispano, but el arte magnífica is also correct?

The word "arte" in singular can be both masculine or feminine. Most of the time is masculine, specially when it refers to beautiful creations and skills, but with very old expressions and when it means "the correct way/steps to do something (for whatever purpose, not just for beauty)", it can feminine (as it used to be in the past). Thus, "arte moderno", but "arte poética".

In plural is normally feminine.

updated MAY 1, 2010
posted by lazarus1907
1
vote

So what I have deduced is that the word arte in its singular form is treated completely different than alma, ave, águila, agua, hambre, etc. Of course in the plural they are all feminine.
El arte moderno is masc. in both the noun and its modifier but el águila bonita could never be el águila bonito, right'

updated MAY 1, 2010
posted by ltigo
1
vote

Right, because águila is an exclusively feminine noun, unlike arte, which is both feminine and masculine. The only reason "el" is used with nouns such as águila is that it makes them easier to pronounce. Because those nouns are truly feminine, any modifying adjectives will also be feminine, both in singular and plural.

The bisexual nature of arte seems to be just one of those odd quirks of every language.

updated MAY 1, 2010
posted by 00bacfba
1
vote

Thanks again James and Lazarus. Y ahora voy a darme diez latigazos.

James Santiago said:

Right, because águila is an exclusively feminine noun, unlike arte, which is both feminine and masculine. The only reason "el" is used with nouns such as águila is that it makes them easier to pronounce. Because those nouns are truly feminine, any modifying adjectives will also be feminine, both in singular and plural.The bisexual nature of arte seems to be just one of those odd quirks of every language.

>

updated MAY 1, 2010
posted by ltigo
1
vote

I think I would like to take a stab at an answer to this question, having just completed a little quiz in my (German) grammar book on the very subject!

There seem to be many words in Spanish which are not "both" masculine and feminine (as you state here and as underlined in another response by lazarus1907, but rather "either" masculine or feminine depending on what the word means. Obviously there are words such as "colega" or "deportista" and the meaning can be woman or man colleague, sportsman or sportwoman depending on the article (oh, and yes, the persongrin That is clear. And there are other words such as capital, cólera, coma, cometa, corte, cura, editorial, frente, orden, parte for which the meaning can be quite different (la coma, el coma, to name two words that really do not seem to have a connection.). By the way, I may sound knowledgeable here, but I did not get them all right on my quiz:-( All of those words have different meanings depending on gender and I guess we can also form the plural for all of those words.

And then there is "arte". It too has different meanings as pointed out by lazarus1907. And you point out James (as does my grammar!) that "arte" is alwqys feminine in the plural.

But might that not simply be because the meaning of the word art, when masculine, has no plural. When one speaks of "las belles artes" one is not really forming the plural of "el arte" (as would be modified by "moderno," Instead this plural is for the kind of "art" that lazarus1907 describes above - a skill or way of doing something. Maybe the plural for "el arte" has just been lost through the years. Maybe there never was one. Maybe the concept of "art" as expressed by the masculine "el art" is even new, having developed from and come into the language evolving from the more ancient - let me call them "art forms" ...pottery, mosaic laying - you know, the decorative arts. They still exist and so we still have the feminine "arte" too.

Those "arts" still have to be preceded by the article "el" in the singular, but for a different reason. The feminine "arte",conincidentally falls into the category of feminine words beginning with an accented "a" or "ha" (again, my German grammar).

Gosh I wish I had gotten a better grade on that quiz!

James Santiago said:

Right, because águila is an exclusively feminine noun, unlike arte, which is both feminine and masculine. The only reason "el" is used with nouns such as águila is that it makes them easier to pronounce. Because those nouns are truly feminine, any modifying adjectives will also be feminine, both in singular and plural.

The bisexual nature of arte seems to be just one of those odd quirks of every language.

>

updated MAY 1, 2010
posted by Janice
1
vote

Thanks Janice for your input.

Janice said:

I think I would like to take a stab at an answer to this question, having just completed a little quiz in my (German) grammar book on the very subject!There seem to be many words in Spanish which are not "both" masculine and feminine (as you state here and as underlined in another response by lazarus1907, but rather "either" masculine or feminine depending on what the word means. Obviously there are words such as "colega" or "deportista" and the meaning can be woman or man colleague, sportsman or sportwoman depending on the article (oh, and yes, the persongrin That is clear. And there are other words such as capital, cólera, coma, cometa, corte, cura, editorial, frente, orden, parte for which the meaning can be quite different (la coma, el coma, to name two words that really do not seem to have a connection.). By the way, I may sound knowledgeable here, but I did not get them all right on my quiz:-( All of those words have different meanings depending on gender and I guess we can also form the plural for all of those words.And then there is "arte". It too has different meanings as pointed out by lazarus1907. And you point out James (as does my grammar!) that "arte" is alwqys feminine in the plural.But might that not simply be because the meaning of the word art, when masculine, has no plural. When one speaks of "las belles artes" one is not really forming the plural of "el arte" (as would be modified by "moderno," Instead this plural is for the kind of "art" that lazarus1907 describes above - a skill or way of doing something. Maybe the plural for "el arte" has just been lost through the years. Maybe there never was one. Maybe the concept of "art" as expressed by the masculine "el art" is even new, having developed from and come into the language evolving from the more ancient - let me call them "art forms" ...pottery, mosaic laying - you know, the decorative arts. They still exist and so we still have the feminine "arte" too.Those "arts" still have to be preceded by the article "el" in the singular, but for a different reason. The feminine "arte",conincidentally falls into the category of feminine words beginning with an accented "a" or "ha" (again, my German grammar).Gosh I wish I had gotten a better grade on that quiz!

James Santiago said:

Right, because águila is an exclusively feminine noun, unlike arte, which is both feminine and masculine. The only reason "el" is used with nouns such as águila is that it makes them easier to pronounce. Because those nouns are truly feminine, any modifying adjectives will also be feminine, both in singular and plural.The bisexual nature of arte seems to be just one of those odd quirks of every language.

>

updated MAY 1, 2010
posted by ltigo