HomeQ&AWhat I **thought** I heard: Is casar ever used without "se"?

What I **thought** I heard: Is casar ever used without "se"?

5
votes

Without context, sometimes it's really hard to make sense of a sentence. For example, I thought I heard

** Mi padres casó de nuevo y todavía está casado**

I know, I know, it's grammatically incorrect, but for someone desperately trying to understand what they are hearing and trying to parse the words out of this stream of sounds, grammar isn't the first thought. So, the first thing I put together in my mind was "My parents were married again and they are still married"

What she was really saying was;

Mi padre se casó de nuevo y todavía está casado

My father married again and is still married

Can you see what confused me? It was the stream of sounds padresecasó being parsed incorrectly as padres casó which completely changes the 'understanding' of what I thought I heard.

I've actually had things like this happen to me a lot. Of course, when she told me about her fathers divorce, it gave me context and what I thought I heard changed meaning and it dawned on me, Doh! her father married again!

Some of my puertorriqueña friends 'drop' the letter 's', so that makes it even harder for me to understand things sometimes. I asked one lady "why do you not pronounce the 's'" and she said "oh, we just do it like that". For example, when they say nos vemos you will hear no vemo. I guess I'm lucky because I get to interact with so many different Spanish speaking cultures in my church. It has helped me to hear different Spanish dialects.

No question really, just an observation tongue laugh

2897 views
updated ABR 24, 2010
edited by 00494d19
posted by Jack-OBrien
changed meaning, this is really a perfect question for the grammar part, the example from Spain is a rural area in Alpujarra. - 00494d19, ABR 20, 2010
Thank you Heidita. I didn't know if I was going crazy or if others had this problem too. I was unsure where to post it ~:) - Jack-OBrien, ABR 20, 2010

12 Answers

4
votes

We do wierd things in English too. I wonder what fits are inflicted on those learning English when they here someone from the northeast or midwest pronounce "wash" as "warsh." there aren't any darn Rs in wash! But you here it frequently.

Also, as I listen to Spanish speakers and become frustrated with myself, I remind myself that I often miss things in English too. The difference is that I know which words go together in English so if I can make out 3 or 4 words out 10 I know what the speaker is talking about. I don't have that luxury in Spanish, yet.

I also remind myself that even in my native English I can get messed up. I remember the old Creedence song Bad Moon Rising in which I swore the lyrics included "there's a bathroom on the right" or Jimi Hendrix Purple Haze in which I would have sworn he said "excuse my while I kiss this guy."

I think the word for this phenomenon is a mondregreen and it happens in all languages.

updated ABR 21, 2010
edited by ocbizlaw
posted by ocbizlaw
Hahaha..great examples! - --Mariana--, ABR 20, 2010
mondegreen - See Wikipedia for both the origin of the term and other amusing examples. - samdie, ABR 21, 2010
2
votes

Gekkosan wrote:

The example that you have given could not possibly have confused a native speaker - ever - because the native speaker would have been listening for the "casó" (third person singular) vs. "casaron" (third person plural). A native speaker would have ignored the "s" you heard in "padre(s)", and would have interpreted the sentence correctly.

Wow, this gives me great insight and confirms a previous assumption I had, and that is, properly understanding the verbs will put me on the right track. What comes with practice is of course the ability to instantly understand that casó is third person singular and that it has to refer to him/her.
I know this may sound overly simplistic to some, but it's just the way my brain is working right now smile
I really appreciate you pointing out how a native speaker would never be confused and why they wouldn't be, in situations like this. Kind of helps my perspective, if you know what I mean.

updated ABR 20, 2010
posted by Jack-OBrien
2
votes

That's an interesting anecdote, Jack, and it really is bound to happen. I mean, it is easy enough to misinterpret something said by someone speaking your own native language, if the conditions are not ideal. If you are listening to an unfamiliar language, and / or your level of proficiency is not very high, these sorts of problems are bound to crop up with certain regularity.

The example that you have given could not possibly have confused a native speaker - ever - because the native speaker would have been listening for the "casó" (third person singular) vs. "casaron" (third person plural). A native speaker would have ignored the "s" you heard in "padre(s)", and would have interpreted the sentence correctly.

Happens to all of us, and the only solution is practice, practice, practice! grin

Fortunately for you, conversations are all about feedback and redundance, so the misunderstanding was quickly cleared up!

Thanks for sharing the story!

updated ABR 20, 2010
posted by Gekkosan
1
vote

Actually the verbo casar in rural areas and I think in some parts of America is often used without the se.

Mi padre casó de nuevo. He got married again.

So in this case, Jack, you were understanding exactly what she saidwink Good job.

One example from Mexico:

Mi padre casó con María Trinidad Álvarez Bacho y tuvieron a María-Cristina (30 años), Marisela (29), Luís, Jr. (26), Maria-Isabel (24), David (22),

One from Spain:

Su hijo Gabriel casó con Jerónima Porquet. Su hijo Gabriel Antonio casó en primeras nupcias .....mi bisabuelo Sebastián Junqueras regales que casó con Esperanza López y tuvieron a mi abuelo Sebastián, José y Matilde. Mi abuelo casó con Simona Delpueyo y tuvieron ...

updated ABR 20, 2010
posted by 00494d19
Wow, this is good to know. Thanks so much for the examples. - Jack-OBrien, ABR 20, 2010
0
votes

Many people around here (East Anglia, England) pronounce the word Drawing like this - Drawring

So do many people from Boston, Massachusetts USA

updated ABR 24, 2010
posted by Jack-OBrien
Yep, we certainly do. Another is "idea" is pronounced "idear." - --Mariana--, ABR 23, 2010
Ahh, yes, I remember hearing that one too! - Jack-OBrien, ABR 23, 2010
Yup, here too - and 'I saw him' can sound like 'I sore im'. Dropped 'T' must be a nightmare for students too. - galsally, ABR 24, 2010
0
votes

No, it's pretty clear some are dropping the 'S'. I've had discussions with Puerto Ricans discussing this very thing, and they say that is what they are doing.

Well, two things: (1) when the final s is pronounced as j, it really sounds like the s is dropped if you don't realize it is being pronounced as j and (2) your native friends might not know how to describe what they are doing any better than that.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I am just not sure that I'm wrong yet. smile

I myself had encountered some cases where I thought the final s was being dropped, but then I later read some Spanish comics making fun of some accent by putting j where s should go. Once I saw that, suddenly I could hear the s being pronounced as j in situations, in which I had first thought it was being dropped.

So, maybe they are saying noj vemoj and pronouncing the j's really lightly. Again, I am NOT saying they are, just wondering. Also, the j sound I am referring to is a soft breathy k-like sound, not an h-sound.

For a good example of this accent, watch the Disney movie "Bolt" with the Spanish track on. The first pigeons that Bolt encounters are in New York City, and they often pronounce the final s as j (I believe they said, for example, ejtás for estás). Oddly they don't convert all syllable-terminating s's to j's...so, I think it was ejtás (not ejtáj).

It is an interesting accent (where final s is pronounced like j) even if I am wrong. smile

updated ABR 23, 2010
edited by webdunce
posted by webdunce
0
votes

Just a short comment. I have great difficulty understanding spoken Spanish no matter who speaks it.

Dropped Ss I have got used to but ........ Spoken English is far far worse.

updated ABR 23, 2010
posted by ian-hill
I live in South Georgia, USA. My Spanish speaking friends laugh at our English, but they do say it's easy to understand because we talk so slow :~) - Jack-OBrien, ABR 23, 2010
0
votes

Well, I'm getting more confused. Sometimes I here the 's' in the middle of the word clearly, sometimes it does sound like a 'j'. You have really peaked my interest with this! I'm going to be with some Puertorriqueño friends tonight, guess what I'm going to ask them? tongue wink Like you mention, they may not know how to describe what they are doing. It was interesting to me though, when I asked them "why do you all drop the 's' at the end of words" and the person I asked responded without hesitation "that's just the way we do". Hmm, the more I think about this, the more I think you are probably right. There's a Puertorriqueño chef on television that has this type of accent, and it's really strong, and it fits what you have described pretty closely.
Thanks for your comments!

updated ABR 23, 2010
posted by Jack-OBrien
0
votes

I heard the 's' being dropped/changed a lot in Diarios Motocicleto. As people are saying, it sounds like ejtá o e'tá (like a glottal stop?) for está. Very frequently mucha gracias etc

They are from Argentina, maybe someone can confirm it for us? (I know Benz is from Argentina. smile)

As for English, Dios mio, poor poor students of English, many of us native English speakers are terribly lazy, PLUS we add letters where they shouldn't exist, for example...

Many people around here (East Anglia, England) pronounce the word Drawing like this - Drawring.

They also pronounce 't' as 'ch' for example..

Tuna will be heard as Chuna, Tunes as Chunes.

¡Buenas suertes, estudiantes de inglés!

updated ABR 23, 2010
posted by galsally
0
votes

In regards to Puerto Ricans dropping the s, are they dropping it or pronouncing it differently? I ask because I have heard an accent where some (not all) syllables ending with the s sound are pronounced as though they ended with j. For example, estás would sound like ejtás (or was it ejtáj?).

(That's the Spanish j I'm referring to...like the one in reloj).

updated ABR 23, 2010
edited by webdunce
posted by webdunce
No, it's pretty clear some are dropping the 'S'. I've had discussions with Puerto Ricans discussing this very thing, and they say that is what they are doing. - Jack-OBrien, ABR 22, 2010
0
votes

My mexican boyfriend's mom dated a Puerto Rican one time and he would drop the "s" on everything too. I was so confused that I used to tell him either speak English or speak Spanish because I can't understand this "puerto rican" language. tongue rolleye

updated ABR 20, 2010
posted by mamasita_s
¡Ja, ja, ja! Es cierto que los Puertorriqueños tienden a hablar un "espanglish" muy confuso. Por otra parte, ¡yo no entiendo mucho de lo que dicen los mexicanos! :-D - Gekkosan, ABR 20, 2010
¡También le digo con frecuencia a mis amigos mexicanos que por favor me hablen en español! - Gekkosan, ABR 20, 2010
0
votes

For example, when they say nos vemos you will hear no vemo.

I get lost on this one, too, because it changes the meaning so much when it sounds like someone says "no vamos a..." (we aren't going....) when they really said "nos vamos a..." (we are going...)!!

updated ABR 20, 2010
posted by --Mariana--
Ah, see? Same deal here. For native speaker this is far less confusing, because you're listening to the intonation, which changes everything. - Gekkosan, ABR 20, 2010
SpanishDict is the world's most popular Spanish-English dictionary, translation, and learning website.
© Curiosity Media Inc.