cual es la diferncia entre ''me'' he empapado los zapatos y he empapado los zapatos o me voy a casa y voy a casa?
cual es la diferncia entre ''me'' he empapado los zapatos y he empapado los zapatos o me voy a casa y voy a casa?
9 Answers
Alright, short and sweet.
'Voy' and 'me voy' are not exactly the same. 'Ir' is to go, 'irse' is to leave. Yea, they're kinda' similar in the fact you're both going some place, but leaving is a different kind of going somewhere. Check out the concept of 'reflexive' verbs in the reference section found under the 'More' tab (the blue bar at the top of the site) and then click on 'reference'.
The 'me he empapado los zapatos' is the under the same concept of 'reflexive' verbs. Your own shoes have gotten soaked by your own doing.
-Charlius-
cual es la diferncia entre ''me'' he empapado los zapatos y he empapado los zapatos o me voy a casa y voy a casa?
To explain your questions, we need to talk about pronominal verbs. Many infinitives that have "se" at the end are always, mistakenly, called reflexive. A verb is reflexive if the subject is performing the action of the verb on his or herself. Thus, "ducharse", "maquillarse", "bañarse", etc. are all correctly called reflexive verbs (you are showering/putting makeup on/bathing yourself.) Other infinitives that have "se" at the end are pronominal verbs. "Hacerse", "irse", "perderse", etc. When conjugated, the subject of the verb will not be performing any action on his or herself. I know this may all seem like useless grammatical jargon, but the notion that every infinitive that has "se" at the end is reflexive is a misconception. The truth is that reflexive verbs are just a type of pronominal verb.
Many times, the pronominal form of a verb can indicate "to get/be/become + infinitive." For example:
- Enojar = to madden; Enojarse = to get mad
- Alegrar = to make happy; Alegrarse = to be happy/glad
- Perder = to lose; Perderse = to get lost
So, the difference between "'Me he empapado los zapatos" and "He empapado los zapatos" is that the first example, using the pronominal form of empapar, means "I've got my shoes soaked" and the second example means ""I've soaked my shoes." There's a slight change in meaning.
On to "ir" vs. "irse." This is what I've learned regarding their usage. When you use "ir", you must also state a destination. If you were to simply say "Voy," a native would most likely respond with... "Vas... ¿adónde?"
"Irse" does not require a destination, though you can use one. That is why you may hear, simply, "Me voy" when someone wants to say that they are leaving but doesn't have a destination in mind.
Voy. -- Wrong
Voy a la tienda. --Correct
Me voy. -- Correct
Me voy a la tienda -- Correct
Here's a really good explanation of ir vs. irse by Lazarus, from another thread:
This is the difference in a nutshell:
ir focuses on the destination
irse focuses on the starting point
Therefore, "ir" usually goes with prepositions indicating destination, like "a" or "hacia". It also used to indicate the transport used (en tren, a pie,...), but there is always a implicit destination. The starting point is optional. In "Siempre vamos al cine los viernes"; the destination is the cinema, but there is no information regarding the starting point. You can also say "Vamos de Madrid a Segovia", indicating also the starting point, but the important thing is still the destination.
"Irse" assumes there is a starting point, from where we leave, so it normally uses prepositions like "de" or "desde" to indicate this. The destination is optional. Thus, if you say "me voy", the starting point is "here" (where you are when you say it), but the destination is not stated. In "Me voy al bar" there is also a destination, but the starting point, here, is still there, and it is the main focus.
"Irse" is often translated as "to leave".
Nick has provided great information on the 'pronomial' verb concept. The idea is that it states something using the verb. This explains the things that Nick mentioned such as 'Me pierdo' to say, 'I'm lost/I'm getting lost'. Another example would be 'Me siento incomodo' for 'I feel uncomfortable' or in other forms such as commands, 'No te pongas asi!'
There's a pretty important concept here though, one that's probably not shown in textbooks or taught formally because it relies heavily on the individual's understanding of the language. You can add on those pronouns at any time, it just depends on what you want to say. There's really no word that exists where you can't add on these 'tags'. The conjugated verb provides the main idea/concept of what is going on, and the 'tags' help divert the action in a more specific manner, it just depends in what kind of manner. That's why in textbooks, or formal learning situations, we differentiate between the different roles that these 'tags' play. We just give them complex sounding names like 'reflexive pronoun' or 'indirect object pronoun' etc etc.
One more issue that bothers me that stems from all this. Since the verb, either conjugated or in its natural infinitive state, provides the main idea/concept, I really don't like how in dictionaries or in classes, words like 'hacer' and 'hacerse' can be shown as separate words. I really don't believe in this. There's really only one word here, one concept, that of 'hacer'. The 'se' simply provides to help modify the main idea of 'hacer' so why the need of showing them as 2 separate words?? Ahh, whatever.
One thing I did fall in the trap of doing though, is that I did incorrectly classify 'irse' as a reflexive verb. Nick is correct in saying that 'irse' as to leave is not. Nice catch, but then again, that whole thing stems from the problem of showing these types of words as separate entities (ir, irse, hacer, hacerse, dar, darse).
So the most important thing to come away with from this, that I hope happens, is that people start to stop viewing them as separate words and that those pronomial 'tags' as I've started to call them are simple tools for you to add on whenever the need arises.
-Charlius-
You don't use "me" and "he". "He" is me. When I say "he", I'm already saying me. "He" is my word, it's what I've done. Voy and Me voy are also the same thing. Remember, spanish "turns" on verbs. "Ya me voy", "me piro", are all style things...things that have flavor. But in spoken spanish, the verb is the main thing, not the pronoun.
In this case there is no "major" difference between those to examples that you have provided. "Voy a casa" is "I'm going home", while, "me voy a casa" is from the reflexive verb "irse", their for you're kind of sayiing that you're leaving to go home, but if you're moving from one place to another that means that you're leaving the origional location; therefore, in other words you are left with thae same translation "I'm going home. If this is not making sense to you feel free to ask me wht the hel* I'm talking about. Now, however, not every verb and it's reflexive are going to make this so easy. Por Ejemplo: "ver" and "verse" If I say "te veo" I'm saying "I see you",If I use "verse", and say "te ves bien" I would be saying "You look good". Fromthis you would realize that "ver" means "to look, to watch", while "verse" means "to look (as in apparence)".
P.S. I hope this helps.
Voy and Me voy are also the same thing. Remember, spanish "turns" on verbs. "Ya me voy", "me piro", are all style things...things that have flavor. But in spoken spanish, the verb is the main thing, not the pronoun.
JohnJuan: This is exactly how I understand it.
Creo que es correcto. Si digo me he empapado, quiero decir que yo mismo soy responsable por el hecho. Si fuera a decir he empapado, el acto de empapar provieniera de alguna lugar desconocido.
I don't know whether you should have the "me" in those.
Voy a casa -> I go to house, meaning I'm going home. The 'me' I believe is what's called the indirect pronoun, ie, who the verb do-er is doing the verb to. For example
"No diga" would mean "don't [you] tell", whereas "No me diga" would mean "don't [you] tell me".
So if "voy a" means "I go to" / "I'm going to", then "me voy a" would mean "I go me to" or "I go myself to".
In the first, "he empapado los zapatos" means "I have soaked the shoes", with the "he" indicating that you're talking about yourself. "Me he empapado" I guess would be "I have soaked me", so you wouldn't really say "I have socked me the shoes".
But I'm thinking in English terms, the rules could of course be completely different en Español 
