¿Presente o subjuntivo:La música me encanta mucha porque se hable ..

0
votes

¿Cuál es lo mejor entre los dos?

En inglés:
I love music very much because it speaks to the soul, it enriches daily life, it gives meaning to the problems that we face in our lives.

a: La música me encanta mucha porque se hable al alma, se enriquezca la vida diaria, se dé sentido a los problemas que nos afrontamos en nuestra vida.

b: La música me encanta mucha porque se habla al alma, se enriquece la vida diaria, se da sentido a los problemas que nos afrontamos en nuestra vida.

Muchas gracias por su ayuda!

5479 views
updated JUL 31, 2009
posted by josue3

13 Answers

0
votes

I am sorry, but all of those forms use the indicative, because you are declaring something that you believe.

I am sure you meant to say indicative, not subjunctive, because indicative is used to declare.
¡Uuuuyy! ¿Cómo se dice en chino, 'Ya metí la pata'? ¿o, 'La regué ya'? sick

I guess I have learned my lesson about postulating on the forum so early in the morning after a night's sleep cut short. If the brain isn't fully functioning yet in the mother tongue, then it probably won't be in any of the little offspring tongues either. confused

Thank you both for the correction.

It also takes us a while to learn that (sometimes) when you say it positively you are declaring something, but when you say it negatively you are only expressing your reaction (doubt or emotions) to the fact. The fact that verbs like Dudar y No Dudar act just the opposite doesn't help. (like ser, estar, por and para the subjunctive will always be confusing to the beginner, because the simple rules that are given for when it's used are often ambiguous and confusing to the beginner's ear.)

Not just for beginners, Q; this advanced "student" stepped in it with this one. red face

Looking at it after the fact now, I had to be thinking about the negative of those expressions I listed. Like Comprender/No comprender, those take the subjunctive in the negative.

Sorry if I caused anyone any confusion before Nick and Lazarus arrived to set the record straight. At least I sent the original poster in the right direction regarding his question and this issue.

updated JUL 31, 2009
posted by hhmdirocco
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No, I could have taken the free pass that you and Lazarus offered me, but what can I say, I'm an honest guy. smile When I'm wrong I have to admit it, even though the ego comes out a little bruised. downer

updated JUL 31, 2009
posted by hhmdirocco
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Haha, Rocco: it was no big deal, I was almost 100% sure that you meant to say "we do not use the subjunctive." But hey! - my little rant helped me to remember and reinforce the rules/concepts of the subjunctive! Sometimes it helps to just explain things aloud to yourself, which was really what I was doing in my post. tongue laugh

updated JUL 31, 2009
posted by Nick-Cortina
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That is obviously someone's opinion, but there is no grammatical device designating it as such, as in "Me parece que Inglaterra sea el país el más hermoso de todo el mundo." So in josue's example, you could separate the effect and the cause and still have two indicative statements: "La música me encanta. Habla al alma."

Normally when we state our opinion, we do use the subjunctive, because we use expressions like "Creo que ...", "Me parece que ...", "Supongo que ...", "Estoy seguro de que ...", "Pienso que ...", etc. But that is not the case here.

So, josue, I think your sentence should go something like this:

"La música me encanta mucho porque habla al alma, enriquece la vida diaria, y da sentido a los problemas que nos enfrentamos en la vida."

I am sorry, but all of those forms use the indicative, because you are declaring something that you believe. "Me parece que Inglaterra ES el país más hermoso de todo el mundo." "Parecer" ALWAYS uses the indicative, "No parecer" uses the subjunctive. Think about it... if you took away the "me parece que part" you would be left with "Inglaterra es el país más hermoso de todo el mundo." Is that what you are trying to say? Yes. So you are declaring it, thus you must use the indicative.

All of those other examples also use the indicative:

Creo que va a llover. (Take away "Creo que" and you have "Va a llover". Is that what you want to say? Yes. So declare it.)

Supongo que estás allá. (Take away "Supongo que" and you have "Estás allá". Is that what you want to say? Yes. So declare it)

Estoy seguro de que la comida ha llegado a la fiesta. (Take away "Estoy seguro de que" and you have "la comida ha llegado." Is that what you want to say? Yes. So declare it.)

Pienso que él necesita dormir. (Take away "Pienso que" and you have "él necesita dormir." Is that what you want to say? Yes. So declare it.)

So saying that "Normally when we state our opinion, we do use the subjunctive, because we use expressions like "Creo que ..." is wrong. Unless you meant to say "we do not use" and it was a typo and I went on this long rant for nothing tongue laugh

I believe that I have commented on this concept before. For beginner's when we see "I believe, I suppose, I think", the rules on subjunctive use and probability (doubt) or contrary to fact set off alarm bells in our head. To the beginner you can not declare something that you are unsure of (degree of doubt). So you cannot declare what is only an opinion (as we don't believe all of our opinions 100%). That is why we often say "I don't know for sure, that is only my opinion" As long as there are uses for the subjunctive to show doubt the beginner is always going to suspect that verbs than do not express certainty use the subjunctive. So keep on explaining that you can declare something that may be contrary to fact like an opinion. I can have a wrong (incorrect) opinion.
It also takes us a while to learn that (sometimes) when you say it positively you are declaring something, but when you say it negatively you are only expressing your reaction (doubt or emotions) to the fact. The fact that verbs like Dudar y No Dudar act just the opposite doesn't help. (like ser, estar, por and para the subjunctive will always be confusing to the beginner, because the simple rules that are given for when it's used are often ambiguous and confusing to the beginner's ear.)

put sentences like:
dudo que+subjunctive
Puede ser+ subjunctive
with my opinion (creo que) is + indicative and confusion will arise because of our connotations about opinions (they are not always convictions).

updated JUL 31, 2009
posted by 0074b507
0
votes

Normally when we state our opinion, we do use the [del]subjunctive[/del], because we use expressions like "Creo que ...", "Me parece que ...", "Supongo que ...", "Estoy seguro de que ...", "Pienso que ...", etc. But that is not the case here.

I am sure you meant to say indicative, not subjunctive, because indicative is used to declare.

Regarding mucho, it can be both an adjective or an adverb.

1) With nouns or adjectives used as nouns, it is an adjective, and it agrees with the noun they precede:

mucha gente
mucho hierro

2) If it refers to the verbal action, it is an adverb, and it is always "mucho":

Como mucho

3)In front of adjectives or adverbs, it takes the form "muy", except for comparative adjectives:

mucho mejor
mucho después
mucho más

muy guapo/a
muy bien

updated JUL 30, 2009
posted by lazarus1907
0
votes

That is obviously someone's opinion, but there is no grammatical device designating it as such, as in "Me parece que Inglaterra sea el país el más hermoso de todo el mundo." So in josue's example, you could separate the effect and the cause and still have two indicative statements: "La música me encanta. Habla al alma."

Normally when we state our opinion, we do use the subjunctive, because we use expressions like "Creo que ...", "Me parece que ...", "Supongo que ...", "Estoy seguro de que ...", "Pienso que ...", etc. But that is not the case here.

So, josue, I think your sentence should go something like this:

"La música me encanta mucho porque habla al alma, enriquece la vida diaria, y da sentido a los problemas que nos enfrentamos en la vida."

I am sorry, but all of those forms use the indicative, because you are declaring something that you believe. "Me parece que Inglaterra ES el país más hermoso de todo el mundo." "Parecer" ALWAYS uses the indicative, "No parecer" uses the subjunctive. Think about it... if you took away the "me parece que part" you would be left with "Inglaterra es el país más hermoso de todo el mundo." Is that what you are trying to say? Yes. So you are declaring it, thus you must use the indicative.

All of those other examples also use the indicative:
Creo que va a llover. (Take away "Creo que" and you have "Va a llover". Is that what you want to say? Yes. So declare it.)
Supongo que estás allá. (Take away "Supongo que" and you have "Estás allá". Is that what you want to say? Yes. So declare it)
Estoy seguro de que la comida ha llegado a la fiesta. (Take away "Estoy seguro de que" and you have "la comida ha llegado." Is that what you want to say? Yes. So declare it.)
Pienso que él necesita dormir. (Take away "Pienso que" and you have "él necesita dormir." Is that what you want to say? Yes. So declare it.)

So saying that "Normally when we state our opinion, we do use the subjunctive, because we use expressions like "Creo que ..." is wrong. Unless you meant to say "we do not use" and it was a typo and I went on this long rant for nothing tongue laugh

updated JUL 30, 2009
posted by Nick-Cortina
0
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a: La música me encanta [del]mucha[/del] porque [del]se[/del] habla al alma, [del]se[/del] enriquece la vida diaria ** y da** sentido a los problemas que [del]nos[/del] afrontamos en nuestra vida.

Hi Josue, remember the "declaration" rule Lazarus always gives for the subjunctive.

Here you are declaring something very clearly so you need the indicative.

( I have just seen that this was said by Rocco, goog job wink )

Furthermore, we do not use "encantar" with mucho. Encantar is already considered a superlative form of a verb, so to speak, so you cannot add superlatives here.

updated JUL 30, 2009
posted by 00494d19
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I have no idea why our dictionay says mucho -a under adverb?

Hi quen, have a look in the RAE under "mucho" and you will find this:

Mucho antes. Mucho después. Mucho más. Mucho menos.

with an adverbial function.

updated JUL 30, 2009
posted by 00494d19
0
votes

Clearly you mean indicative or subjunctive mood, as both are in the present tense.

I think you mean indicative or subjunctive mood. grin


Correct guys, but in all fairness to josue, many Spanish books/conjugation tables call the present indicative just simply "Present," and the present subjunctive "Subjunctive." So if he were looking at such a page and trying to decide between the two forms, I can understand why he phrased his question that way.

To answer your question, josue, you must use the indicative. You are stating your beliefs as to what music does, so indicative is obligatory. (Note: "Me gusta que..." uses the subjunctive.

Technically, the sentence does not say that these are his beliefs. He states a fact that music delights him (he loves music) and he declares the reasons. Obviously, these things are his opinion, but the construction is indicative, like in the statement "Inglaterra es el país el más hermoso de todo el mundo." That is obviously someone's opinion, but there is no grammatical device designating it as such, as in "Me parece que Inglaterra sea el país el más hermoso de todo el mundo." So in josue's example, you could separate the effect and the cause and still have two indicative statements: "La música me encanta. Habla al alma."

Normally when we state our opinion, we do use the subjunctive, because we use expressions like "Creo que ...", "Me parece que ...", "Supongo que ...", "Estoy seguro de que ...", "Pienso que ...", etc. But that is not the case here.

So, josue, I think your sentence should go something like this:
"La música me encanta mucho porque habla al alma, enriquece la vida diaria, y da sentido a los problemas que nos enfrentamos en la vida."

I think "enfrentarse" is what you meant here instead of the non-pronominal "afrontar," or at least it is what I would use. A native speaker might disagree with me on that. If you use "afrontar," it does not take the pronoun (nos).

updated JUL 30, 2009
posted by hhmdirocco
0
votes

yes, boy, lack of sleep must be blinding me completely. Thank you.

No problem grin Now that I think of it, I believe the imperative is classified as a mood. But it usually doesn't rear it's head in the constant battle of indicative vs. subjunctive, tongue laugh

updated JUL 30, 2009
posted by Nick-Cortina
0
votes

Clearly you mean [del]imperative[/del] or subjunctive (mood)? as both are in the present tense.

I think you mean indicative or subjunctive mood. grin

yes, boy, lack of sleep must be blinding me completely. Thank you.

updated JUL 30, 2009
posted by 0074b507
0
votes

¿Cuál es lo mejor entre los dos?

En inglés:

I love music very much because it speaks to the soul, it enriches daily life, it gives meaning to the problems that we face in our lives.

a: La música me encanta mucha porque se hable al alma, se enriquezca la vida diaria, se dé sentido a los problemas que nos afrontamos en nuestra vida.

b: La música me encanta mucha porque se habla al alma, se enriquece la vida diaria, se da sentido a los problemas que nos afrontamos en nuestra vida.

Muchas gracias por su ayuda!

Clearly you mean imperative or subjunctive (mood)? as both alternatives are in the present tense.

I do not think that adverbs follow the rules of concordance like adjectives do. ...me encanta mucho...even though our dictionary says that they do. I'll have to look further.

from our Reference section:
Adverbs are words that modify verbs, adjectives, or other adverbs. An adverb can give information about time, place, manner, or number. They answer the questions: How? How long? How much? When? and Where? Unlike adjectives, however, they do not change according to gender or number, making them invariable.
mucho as adverb
I have no idea why our dictionay says mucho -a under adverb?

updated JUL 30, 2009
posted by 0074b507
0
votes

Clearly you mean imperative or subjunctive (mood)? as both are in the present tense.

I do not think that adverbs follow the rules of concordance like adjectives do. ...me encanta mucho...even though our dictionary says they do. I'll have to look further.

I think you mean indicative or subjunctive mood. grin

To answer your question, josue, you must use the indicative. You are stating your beliefs as to what music does, so indicative is obligatory. (Note: "Me gusta que..." uses the subjunctive."

Also, I don't think you need all of those "se's" with "se habla al alma, se enriquece la vida diaria, se da sentido a los problemas que nos afrontamos en nuestra vida." That is using a passive construction, but you are trying to say that music "speaks", "enrichs" and "gives meaning", so you just have to use the regular él/ella/Ud. form of those verbs.

updated JUL 30, 2009
posted by Nick-Cortina