why must add "nos"in this sentence?

Question

HI everybody!
please see this sentence
"Cuando todo esta listo nos despiertan a mí y a mí hermana."
why must add "nos" in this sentence'a mí y a mí hermana can espress the meaning well,we can know the personal from "despiertan" .
What grammar in it .please help me !
thanks in advance!

Answer 1

"Cuando todo está listo nos despiertan a mí y a mi hermana."

I could explain it if despertar was being used intransitively ** and the nos was an indirect object pronoun, but it seems that despertar is being used **transitively with the nos being a direct object pronoun in which case I can't supply you with the reason for it's necessity.

Wait for someone more competent.

I'm reading that as:

When everthing is ready they are waking me and my sister. [us]

it could be rendered as will wake.... as this is in the hypothetical future

Answer 2

In this sentence, are you telling 'them? to wake you and your sister up when everything is ready? That's what it sounds like you are saying, but I'm not sure by the sentence construction if that's what you mean. In any case I would say it like this: 'Cuando todo esté listo nos despiertan.? (a mi y a mi hermana). or 'Cuando todo esté listo despierten nos.? (a mi y a mi hermana).
If you are telling He or She to wake you and your sister up, then it woud be: 'Cuando todo esté listo nos despiertas.? (a mí y a mi hermana). or 'Cuando todo esté listo despiértanos.? (a mí y a mi hermana).

Yo me despierto
Tú te despiertas
ÿl o Ella se despierta
Nosotros nos despertamos
Ustedes se despiertan
Ellos se despiertan

(despiértame) wake me up
(despiértate) wake up (you singular)
(despiértale) wake him up
(despiértanos) wake us up
(despiértense) wake up (you plural)
(despiértalos) wake them up

Answer 3

...but it seems that despertar is being used transitively with the nos being a direct object pronoun in which case I can't supply you with the reason for its necessity.

When a direct or indirect object is (or has) a "tonic" pronoun (i.e. mí, ti, él, ella, usted,...), the pronoun must also be used:

Veo a tu hermano (hermano is not a "tonic" pronoun, so it is fine)
Lo veo
Lo veo a tu hermano (WRONG: the DO and its pronoun cannot appear hear at the same time)

'Veo a ti (WRONG: with the pronoun "ti" you must also use the pronoun)
Te veo a ti
Te veo

Also, if the DO or IO appear before the verb, the reduplication is also necessary (except in some special cases I won't discuss here):

A tu hermano veo (WRONG: you must reduplicate)
A tu hermano lo veo

Answer 4

thanks very much !It was so clear for me to understand that!
By the way,i make a mistake when write the sentence,it is está not esta as i write!

In this sentence, are you telling "them" to wake you and your sister up when everything is ready? That's what it sounds like you are saying, but I'm not sure by the sentence construction if that's what you mean. In any case I would say it like this: 'Cuando todo esté listo nos despiertan.? (a mi y a mi hermana). or 'Cuando todo esté listo despierten nos.? (a mi y a mi hermana).

If you are telling He or She to wake you and your sister up, then it woud be: 'Cuando todo esté listo nos despiertas.? (a mi y a mi hermana). or 'Cuando todo esté listo despierta nos.? (a mi y a mi hermana).

Yo me despierto

Tú te despiertas

ÿl o Ella se despierta

Nosotros nos despertamos

Ustedes se despiertan

Ellos se despiertan

(despiértame) wake me up

(despiértate) wake up (you singular)

(despiértale) wake him up

(despiértanos) wake us up

(despiértense) wake up (you plural)

(despiértalos) wake them up

Answer 5

If you are telling He or She to wake you and your sister up, then it woud be: 'Cuando todo esté listo nos despiertas.? (a mí y a mi hermana). or 'Cuando todo esté listo despierta nos.? (a mí y a mi hermana).

I'm asssuming that this is a typo considering your subsequent spelling

(despiértanos) wake us up

Answer 6

Thanks qfreed for pointing out my mistakes. I've already sent kitty a corrected copy of the post.

Answer 7

why must add "nos" in this sentence'a mí y a mí hermana can espress the meaning well,we can

By the way, you must add "nos" because of the grammatical rule I wrote above.

Answer 8

why must add "nos" in this sentence'a mí y a mí hermana can espress the meaning well,we can

By the way, you must add "nos" because of the grammatical rule I wrote above.

I'm assuming that the tonic pronoun must refer to that specific pronoun to require its presence. If we had a sentence that contained both an i.o. and a d.o. pronoun

Ya te he enviado el paquete a ti.

The presence of the a ti only makes the te requisite and I would not have to wite:

Ya te lo he enviado el paquete a ti.

since the ti does not refer to el paquete (lo)?

She aked that we bring him to her.
Pidió que a ella se lo traigamos a él.

above: Does Spanish ever use two of these tonic pronouns in the same sentence'

Answer 9

That "ti" refers to "a ti", not to "lo".

In theory you can have two tonic pronouns in the same sentence, but I can't quickly think of a sentence with both.

Answer 10

That "ti" refers to "a ti", not to "lo".

In theory you can have two tonic pronouns in the same sentence, but I can't quickly think of a sentence with both.

'A ti no te lo dieron.? Is that what you mean? I don't know when I read "grammar" I get dizzy.

Answer 11

That "ti" refers to "a ti", not to "lo".

In theory you can have two tonic pronouns in the same sentence, but I can't quickly think of a sentence with both.

'A ti no te lo dieron.? Is that what you mean? I don't know when I read "grammar" I get dizzy.

What I was trying to ask was:

If the sentence contains both an indirect and direct object and ONE tonic pronoun exists, then must I include object pronouns to refer to both objects or only provide a pronoun to refer to the one noun that the tonic pronoun refers to. Why would that make you dizzy?

Mary asked that I bring John to her.

María pidío que le traigo a Juan a ella.

or

María pidío que se lo traigo a Juan a ella.

Does the a ella ( one tonic pronoun) mean that I MUST us le (because ella clarifies le) One pronoun) or that I MUST use se lo Two pronouns)? Clear as mud?

In other words is the use of the lo in the second sentence necessary beause of the a ella? I know that the le/or se is necessary.

I'm going to ask this correctly if it kills me.

Does the existence of one tonic pronoun mean that we must provide object pronouns for BOTH the i.o. and d.o. or only for the one that it clarifies'

Answer 12

It is my belief that language should be devoid of rules and total freedom of personal expression allowed. Unlike math that needs to follow a certain path and sequence for it to work. Some people like grammar, others like math'I hate both. It makes me dizzy and it's boring'sorry.

Answer 13

It is my belief that language should be devoid of rules and total freedom of personal expression allowed. Unlike math that needs to follow a certain path and sequence for it to work. Some people like grammar, others like math'I hate both. It makes me dizzy and it's boring'sorry.

Well, there must exist some convention or there will be no common ground for understanding each other. I suppose we all draw the line on how much convention is necessary at different levels. For me it lies somewhere between prose and poetry. I see prose as a practical means of communication. The rules just make it more efficient. Using the language as an art form somehow eludes me, both in poem and music lyrics.

Answer 14

i agree;

Answer 15

Mary asked that I bring John to her.

María pidió que le traigo a Juan a ella.

or

María pidió que se lo traigo a Juan a ella.

Well, there you are declaring with indicative that you bring it to her, so she didn't need to ask for it in that case, since you already did (according to the declaration). I'm afraid you need to say "trajera". Also, since "trajera" implies that the destination is connected to the person who uses the verb, "a ella" is a bit redundant here.

Does the a ella ( one tonic pronoun) mean that I MUST us le (because ella clarifies le) One pronoun) or that I MUST use se lo Two pronouns)? Clear as mud?

Your sentence in Spanish has a few mistakes, and it sounds very strange. When both the direct and the indirect objects are people, the "a" in the direct object tends to be dropped to avoid confusions. This sentence could be fixed like this:

María me pidió que le trajera a Juan

That "a ella" sounds a bit weird here, sorry. In any case, in your sentence you did use "le", but that "le" changed to "se", because it was before "lo". Also, this "lo" cannot be used along with "a Juan", because you can't normally use the DO and its pronoun at the same time (unless the DO has a tonic pronoun, or precedes the verb).

In other words is the use of the lo in the second sentence necessary because of the a ella? I know that the le/or se is necessary

The "lo" refers to Juan, not to "ella", so you simply cannot use "lo" here; the pronoun "le --> se" refers to "ella".

Does the existence of one tonic pronoun mean that we must provide object pronouns for BOTH the i.o. and d.o. or only for the one that it clarifies?

Only for the object with the tonic pronoun.