beginning and end of verbs

Question

I would like to know the opinion of people whose mother tongue is English about the "naturalness" of these sentences describing mechanically the beginning and the end of an action. I am interested in people's natural 'feeling? regarding these sentences and not formal explanations or corrections (as I am aware of them).

If you don't mind indulging my curiosity, please tell me whether each one "is fine", "sounds a bit strange", "is plain wrong" or any other comment in none of the previous ones apply. Thanks.

1) If you say you were talking to him at 13:00, you could say that you started to talk at 12:00 and you finished at 14:00.

2) If you say you were wearing a shirt at 13:00, you could say that you started to wear it at 12:00 and you finished at 14:00.

3) If you say you were going home at 13:00, you can could that you started to go home at 12:00 and you finished going home at 14:00.

4) If you say you were having a good time at 13:00, you can could that you started to have a good time at 12:00 and you finished having it at 14:00.

5) If you say you were having a shower at 13:00, you can could that you started to have a shower at 12:00 and you finished having it at 14:00.

Answer 1

The "can / could" is an obvious mistake; I meant to delete "can" and write "could". Sorry.

Answer 2

Before I made those silly "can / could" mistakes, I was hoping to get lots of comments about No. 3, but apparently, only Marc and Janice seem to see things my way. Actually, Janice's comments are EXACTLY what I expected; thanks! (and to the rest: sorry that I didn't make myself clear).

Anyway, the "started to" and "finished" were intentional. Maybe I should have given a different list, such as "a bit strange", "something is not quite right" and "completely unacceptable".

Just in case you're wondering: I am testing a grammatical theory, and I needed some rather fictitious scenarios to observe people's cognitive impressions of them, in order to try to improve future explanations for English speakers learning Spanish (as my English is not that good).

Gus, why did you find #5 stranger than #4? Can you put it in words'

Answer 3

I forgot to mention something (I can't even explain myself): what I meant by "natural" is a sentence that sounds coherent (even if it is formal) and makes enough sense for someone to use it in a real situation. This is really difficult to explain, but can you really say "I finished my going to someone's house" like you'd say "I finished my shower"? Can you find a way to describe the end of both actions using the same words so they both sound natural'

Answer 4

Pergolesi said:

IAs Janice points out, you don't say you "finished" wearing a shirt or getting home, and you probably wouldn't say you "finished" having a good time either, though you can say you finished speaking at a particular time.

Excellent! That's what I hoped to hear from you. And why do you think you can't say finish wearing a shirt when you take it off'

Answer 5

Natasha said:

most of the time, we change the verb to avoid sounding silly if we want to emphasize the start, duration, and end of an event. For example: I was in labor for X hours. I went into labor at Y time and the baby was born at Z time.

Precisely the fact that you have to change the verb is what I was checking. If you can do it with some verbs, but not with others, there must be a reason behind it, there must be a difference between those verbs.

I have the feeling (but I am still checking), if you have to make those changes to avoid sounding ridiculous, you cannot use the progressive tenses in (standard) Spanish. For example, you can say "estoy caminando", and "I started walking this morning" and "I stopped walking an hour ago" don't sound so bad (I hope), but you cannot say "estoy yendo" (=going), and interestingly, "I started going this morning" and "I stopped going an hour ago" sound... well, you tell me, hehe. As I said, it is just a theory, but I don't want to jump to conclusions yet.

Answer 6

Pergolesi said:

"but you cannot say "estoy yendo" (=going),"

I'm wondering why not? We in English say "I'm going" for "me voy" and of course it's customary to say "me voy" but in what context is "yendo" appropriate to use? That is, if you can't say "estoy yendo" can you say "está/están/estas yendo'" And in what context?

In Spain "Estoy yendo" for "I'm going" is simply unacceptable, whereas "me estoy duchando" for "I'm having a shower" is not just correct, but the most common way to express it. All the questions I asked in this thread have to do with the intrinsic difference between verbs which leads to some verbs accepting the progressive, but not others.

Answer 7

Janice said:

Reading the comments, I returned to re-read your sentences. It occurred to me that sentence number five sounds strange because we do not have showers in (American) English. We take showers.

I forgot that American take showers and British have showers, but the whole point was about starting and ending an action anyway.

Answer 8

James Santiago said:

1) If you say you were talking to him at 13:00, you could say that you started to talk at 12:00 and you finished at 14:00. Logically true.

And "Me estoy duchando" is fine too.

James Santiago said:

2) If you say you were wearing a shirt at 13:00, you could say that you started to wear it at 12:00 and you finished at 14:00. Sounds odd

"Estoy llevando una camisa" sounds odd too.

James Santiago said:

3) If you say you were going home at 13:00, you could say that you started to go home at 12:00 and you finished going home at 14:00. Sounds odd

"Estoy yendo" sounds odd too (if we mean right now)

James Santiago said:

4) If you say you were having a good time at 13:00, you could say that you started to have a good time at 12:00 and you finished having it at 14:00. Logically fine

"Me estoy divirtiendo" is fine too.

This is the whole point: whereas in English the present progressive is for actions happening right now (and future plans, but that's another story) as opposed to the simple present, which is for habitual actions, the Spanish progressive requires delimited actions, which is why verbs like "ir" or "wear" are not used with the progressive (in most countries).

Nice analysis, by the way. You could have intervened earlier.

Answer 9

Sentence 5 -- No one "has" a shower. In America we "take" showers. And, I agree with others, if you're taking a shower for two hours you have more problems than your translation. Caveat: In the second person in English, the "tu" in espanol, moms sometimes ask their children, or spouses ask their spouses, "Have you had your shower yet'"

Caveat 2: When real estate agents are describing a home to prospective home buyers, they might say something like, "The bathroom has a shower", or "The basement has a shower." But again, people don't "have" showers, they "take" them.

I'd be quite interested to learn more about the language theory you are working on. It sounds interesting.

I must say...Estavan, jeje, we do have a shower in England every day!!!!

to have a shower is British, to take a shower is American English.

Answer 10

1)sounds a bit strange...
2)sounds a bit strange...
3)sounds a bit strange...
4)sounds a bit strange...
5)sounds a bit strange...

'I was tempted to explain why but then you said you didn't want any.

Answer 11

I would like to answer this,just to see how my answers compares to the natives' answers; It will be interesting for me.

1.fine
2.fine
3 strange
4.fine
5.strange.

One small observation, I noticed that Americans use the word beging more often than the word start, I don't know the reason for this.

Answer 12

It really sounds strange to me the "can could" construction and the last subject pronoun "you" in every sentence could definitely be omitted.

Answer 13

Oh!, My God ! I wish you would explain.
Is it the way the time is writen ? 13:00 instead of 1 PM
Or, is it the use of the word start ?

LadyDi said:

1)sounds a bit strange...2)sounds a bit strange...3)sounds a bit strange...4)sounds a bit strange...5)sounds a bit strange...'I was tempted to explain why but then you said you didn't want any.

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Answer 14

Grammatically speaking, they're all without problem. Ecologically speaking, if you spent two hours in the shower, you should be ashamed of yourself!

Answer 15

They all sound unnatural, especially (3).

It's more natural to use words such as ' We began ......at 12:00 until' rather than using 'started....finished'. Using 'started and finished' in that way is reminiscent of a fomal legal document.