caballero, canalla,caballero, llorar,llamada,llevar, calle....Double {L} and its proper use.

Question

I am confused by the double L in various Spanish words. I hear some pronounce them as a 'Y', while others pronounce them with a 'J' sound. I thought maybe is was that 'LL' at the beginning of the word was the 'J' sound and the double 'L' in the middle was the 'Y' sound. I am finding this is not always true. So is there a rule that would tell me when the word would be pronounced in a certain way? Caballero is the 'Y' sound while Canalla is the 'J' sound. Unless I hear it pronounced, I don't know how to say it.

Answer 1

There is a dialectual difference in some areas. In some dialects the word 'cayó' and the word 'calló' would have different sounds. In other areas it would be the same. In many places the 'll' would be pronounced as the 's' in 'pleasure'. So there is a clear difference in the sound of the two words. This pronunciation is called 'lleísmo' in linguistics. You can find this pronunciation used in many South American countries.

On the other hand, some regions use purely the standard 'y' sounds for both the 'y' and the 'll'. This is called 'yeísmo'.

I mentioned this in another thread, but here is an interesting sentence that plays with these sounds:
"El pollo se calló cuando se cayó del poyo."

In Argentina for example, the difference between the 'll' and the 'y' would be obvious. In other areas it would be difficult to follow this sentence due to the exact same pronunciation of the words.

• Best answer! ;=) - AntMexico Apr 9, 2010

Answer 2

Hi Wendy
Double click on the word "canalla" and it will take to the dictionary where you can hear the word. I may be wrong but I cannot hear a "j" sound.

Answer 3

You are right, that is a Y sound. But why? Gspajon....that makes sense to me. I have friends who use it one way and the other will use the different sound. I am guessing it is not a big deal? Like you said, listen to how it is most commonly used in my area.

Answer 4

"El pollo se calló cuando se cayó del poyo."

Mark is absolutely right. in Spain all the y and ll sounds here would sound the same, in most areas.

Answer 5

I was surprised to read this since, on a recent trip to Buenos Aires, y and ll sounded like the same sound to me (like the s in pleasure) they dont go to the playa, but to the plazha, and the fill their matés with not yerba, but zherba .

Mark W said:

There is a dialectual difference in some areas. In some dialects the word 'cayó' and the word 'calló' would have different sounds. In other areas it would be the same. In many places the 'll' would be pronounced as the 's' in 'pleasure'. So there is a clear difference in the sound of the two words. This pronunciation is called 'lleísmo' in linguistics. You can find this pronunciation used in many South American countries.

On the other hand, some regions use purely the standard 'y' sounds for both the 'y' and the 'll'. This is called 'yeísmo'.

I mentioned this in another thread, but here is an interesting sentence that plays with these sounds:

"El pollo se calló cuando se cayó del poyo."

In Argentina for example, the difference between the 'll' and the 'y' would be obvious. In other areas it would be difficult to follow this sentence due to the exact same pronunciation of the words.

>

Answer 6

Bad news, I'm replying to myself. I left out an ll example. When some one was telling you their name, they would say not me llamo with a y sound, but me zhamo. Was I hearing all this wrong? It's entirely possible.

Answer 7

j (called jota) pronunced like g before e and i as in Scottish lochc migaja reloj

ll (called ele) pronunced for purist like lli in English million, but now days softened to y as in the English yes in the river plate and other areas close to the letter s as in pleasure............... e.g.calle llevar

Answer 8

Just to clarify - there are many variations of this, even within a country. For example: parts of Argentina and Uruguay do not distinguish between the two. So, you are correct, they would say pla3a, ma3o or ca3e (the 3 representing the 's' sound in 'pleasure'). This phenomenon is called zeísmo. Fun stuff indead!

So, in summary you have:
yeísmo - no difference in 'y' and 'll' - pronounce both like a 'y'
lleísmo - a difference between 'y' and 'll' - pronounce 'y' like a y and 'll' like the 's' in 'pleasure'
zeísmo - no diffrence in 'y' and 'll' - pronounce both like the 's' in 'pleasure'

Answer 9

I live in Illinois, and the majority of the Spanish speaking people are Mexican. That is how most of them pronouce the LL. It was my understanding while taking my lesson here that how some words or verbs are used only in Spain, not here. So I never bother learning the form spoken in Spain. It is all I can do to learn what I am now, let alone the, and correct me if I am wrong, which I usually am, the vosotros form. Am I right in thinking that is only used in Spain?

Mark W said:

Just to clarify - there are many variations of this, even within a country. For example: parts of Argentina and Uruguay do not distinguish between the two. So, you are correct, they would say pla3a, ma3o or ca3e (the 3 representing the 's' sound in 'pleasure'). This phenomenon is called zeísmo. Fun stuff indead!So, in summary you have:yeísmo - no difference in 'y' and 'll' - pronounce both like a 'y'lleísmo - a difference between 'y' and 'll' - pronounce 'y' like a y and 'll' like the 's' in 'pleasure'zeísmo - no diffrence in 'y' and 'll' - pronounce both like the 's' in 'pleasure'

>

Answer 10

Thank you so very much for your help. And yes, I have a bad habit of overthinking things and making it more difficult than need be. Thanks again. I sure appreciate it.

gspajon said:

Wendy said:

I live in Illinois, and the majority of the Spanish speaking people are Mexican. That is how most of them pronouce the LL. It was my understanding while taking my lesson here that how some words or verbs are used only in Spain, not here. So I never bother learning the form spoken in Spain. It is all I can do to learn what I am now, let alone the, and correct me if I am wrong, which I usually am, the vosotros form. Am I right in thinking that is only used in Spain?

Mark W said:

Just to clarify - there are many variations of this, even within a country. For example: parts of Argentina and Uruguay do not distinguish between the two. So, you are correct, they would say pla3a, ma3o or ca3e (the 3 representing the 's' sound in 'pleasure'). This phenomenon is called zeísmo. Fun stuff indead!So, in summary you have:yeísmo - no difference in 'y' and 'll' - pronounce both like a 'y'lleísmo - a difference between 'y' and 'll' - pronounce 'y' like a y and 'll' like the 's' in 'pleasure'zeísmo - no diffrence in 'y' and 'll' - pronounce both like the 's' in 'pleasure'

It looks like you've become a little overwhelmed with just a simple question. I know that feeling all too well. the bottom line is if you are using a Mexican form of Spanish to practice then try to "tune" your ear to that form and learn it the best that you can. Also keep in mind that even within Mexico there are different dialects and expressions...just like in the US...one expression that comes to mind in English is "Y'all"...used in the south. Imagine being a Spanish speaker and tring to understand that then asking the English speaking world about it. I imagine you might get a similar response.The more you practice the Spanish that is available to you, the more you'll know when something sounds different, and thus you will begin to learn different ways of saying the same thing and thus expand your knowledge as well. "No te preocupes, estas haciendo muy bien". When you have time come visit us here in Yucatan and totally immerse yourself in the language. The area is beautiful and the people are as warm as teh weather.

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Answer 11

FYI, Wendy, I have "Instant Immersion Spanish" CD's borrowed from the library, and was thinking about making a post about this very topic. The speaker on the CD pronounces ll with a definite leaning toward a "zh" sound (like the z in azure). Very noticeable. As has been pointed out, this sort of pronunciation apparently varies by country.

Wendy said:

I live in Illinois, and the majority of the Spanish speaking people are Mexican. That is how most of them pronouce the LL. It was my understanding while taking my lesson here that how some words or verbs are used only in Spain, not here. So I never bother learning the form spoken in Spain. It is all I can do to learn what I am now, let alone the, and correct me if I am wrong, which I usually am, the vosotros form. Am I right in thinking that is only used in Spain?

Mark W said:

Just to clarify - there are many variations of this, even within a country. For example: parts of Argentina and Uruguay do not distinguish between the two. So, you are correct, they would say pla3a, ma3o or ca3e (the 3 representing the 's' sound in 'pleasure'). This phenomenon is called zeísmo. Fun stuff indead!So, in summary you have:yeísmo - no difference in 'y' and 'll' - pronounce both like a 'y'lleísmo - a difference between 'y' and 'll' - pronounce 'y' like a y and 'll' like the 's' in 'pleasure'zeísmo - no diffrence in 'y' and 'll' - pronounce both like the 's' in 'pleasure'

>

Answer 12

I hope you do Natasha. That would be very helpful for those of us in the very early stages of learning Spanish. Thank so much.

Natasha said:

FYI, Wendy, I have "Instant Immersion Spanish" CD's borrowed from the library, and was thinking about making a post about this very topic. The speaker on the CD pronounces ll with a definite leaning toward a "zh" sound (like the z in azure). Very noticeable. As has been pointed out, this sort of pronunciation apparently varies by country.

Wendy said:

I live in Illinois, and the majority of the Spanish speaking people are Mexican. That is how most of them pronouce the LL. It was my understanding while taking my lesson here that how some words or verbs are used only in Spain, not here. So I never bother learning the form spoken in Spain. It is all I can do to learn what I am now, let alone the, and correct me if I am wrong, which I usually am, the vosotros form. Am I right in thinking that is only used in Spain?

Mark W said:

Just to clarify - there are many variations of this, even within a country. For example: parts of Argentina and Uruguay do not distinguish between the two. So, you are correct, they would say pla3a, ma3o or ca3e (the 3 representing the 's' sound in 'pleasure'). This phenomenon is called zeísmo. Fun stuff indead!So, in summary you have:yeísmo - no difference in 'y' and 'll' - pronounce both like a 'y'lleísmo - a difference between 'y' and 'll' - pronounce 'y' like a y and 'll' like the 's' in 'pleasure'zeísmo - no diffrence in 'y' and 'll' - pronounce both like the 's' in 'pleasure'

>

Answer 13

Well, Wendy, you've beat me to it . . . thank you

Can anyone else identify which countries lean toward the "j" / "zh" pronunciation of ll? I think Mexico does . . .

Wendy said:

I hope you do Natasha. That would be very helpful for those of us in the very early stages of learning Spanish. Thank so much.

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Answer 14

Natasha said:

Can anyone else identify which countries lean toward the "j" / "zh" pronunciation of ll? I think Mexico does .

Many Argentines have a very strong zh pronunciation. Zho zhellgué azher (yo llegué ayer). At least to my ear when I was there. Couple this with a rather Italian-like intonation, and you get a very distinct flavor of Spanish.

In Mexico, it varies considerably with the speaker. I've been told that "standard" Mexican does not use the zh sound.

Answer 15

I have noticed that the singers and disc jockeys on the Spanish radio station I listen to pronounce llama with the Y sound. but I do sometimes here the "dj" or s as in pleasure sound used for other words that I know have 'll" in them. I live in Texas, which is close to Mexico, of course, and full of real Mexicans. There is still a mixture of different pronunciations heard. Of course there are also many Latin people in Texas from South America. My son's homeschool teacher was from Mexico and he told them to pronounce it like a J, or the DG as in judge. so that" me llama" sounds like ME JAMA. HTH!