a quien fuera que fuese

Question

Al poco abandoné toda esperanza de que me presentase a quien fuera que fuese la dama de blanco.

Again, from La sombra del viento. The translation is easy enough this time. Shortly, I lost all hope that he was going to introduce me to the lady in white, whoever she was [whoever she might have been].

What I would like to know is why the switch from one kind of subjunctive to another, and back again. If someone could explain to me the use of the subjunctive here, I would be most appreciative.

This is what the verb conjugator told me, FYI.

Subjuntivo pretérito

fuera
fueras
fuera
fuéramos
fuerais
fueran

Subjuntivo pretérito #2

fuese
fueses
fuese
fuésemos
fueseis
fuesen

Answer 1

Dunno, but here's the book in English, so you can compare as you go along.

[url=http://books.google.com/books'id=YYRJlySbaHAC&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=%22The+Shadow+of+The+Wind%22+%22lady+in+white%22&source=web&ots=GoNjl6FlaF&sig=6Hhq3YKGMwGdHCtZonplOc_S7bs&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result]http://books.google.com/books'id=YYRJlySbaHAC&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=%22The+Shadow+of+The+Wind%22+%22lady+in+white%22&source=web&ots=GoNjl6FlaF&sig=6Hhq3YKGMwGdHCtZonplOc_S7bs&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result[/url]

Answer 2

Aha! You have presented to me the diabolical possibility of reading it in English first! NOOOOOOOOO!

Just kidding. Thanks as that will surely prove very useful in the future. In the meantime, I still have no idea about fuera que fuese que sea whatever . . .

P.S. Here is the professionally translated sentence, in case it is useful to anyone.

I soon abandoned all hope of being introduced to the lady in white, whoever she might be.

Answer 3

I have been looking here at the reference on our site about the imperfect subjunctive. Is this saying that the -r subjunctive and -s subjunctive are entirely equivalent? If so, is the "fuera que fuese" just a past version of "Sea lo que sea"? Why not just say "fuera que fuera"?

Answer 4

Natasha said:

I have been looking here at the reference on our site about the imperfect subjunctive. Is this saying that the -r subjunctive and -s subjunctive are entirely equivalent? If so, is the "fuera que fuese" just a past version of "Sea lo que sea"? Why not just say "fuera que fuera"?

"Fuera lo que fuera" is perfectly fine instead of "fuera lo que fuese", but we say "fuese" on the second one to avoid repeating the same word and getting a cacophony. "Fuera/-se" is used for impossible, improbable or hypothetical conditions, and "sea" for possible or probable ones".

The two forms are perfectly interchangeable... when they are used with typical subjunctive value.

However, the" -ra" form has also some uses which are typically indicative, and here is where the "-se" forms cannot be used at all:

Quisiera una botella de vino = Querría... (replacing the conditional. Only with "querer", "poder" and "deber").
La noticia que recibiera. (Archaic form that replaces the pluperfect indicative in some temporal clauses, and sometimes the preterit. Only found in newspapers.)
Si pudieras venir, me alegrara mucho. (Archaic, literary and very unusual: it replaces the conditional in "si" sentences. Not recommended).

The -se form has always been subjunctive (from Latin until now); the -ra form started as indicative, and ended up as subjunctive, along with the -se form, but still maintaining some "old" indicative values.

Answer 5

lazarus1907 said:

Natasha said:

I have been looking here at the reference on our site about the imperfect subjunctive. Is this saying that the -r subjunctive and -s subjunctive are entirely equivalent? If so, is the "fuera que fuese" just a past version of "Sea lo que sea"? Why not just say "fuera que fuera"?

"Fuera lo que fuera" is perfectly fine instead of "fuera lo que fuese", but we say "fuese" on the second one to avoid repeating the same word and getting a cacophony. "Fuera/-se" is used for impossible, improbable or hypothetical conditions, and "sea" for possible or probable ones".The two forms are perfectly interchangeable... when they are used with typical subjunctive value.However, the" -ra" form has also some uses which are typically indicative, and here is where the "-se" forms cannot be used at all:Quisiera una botella de vino = Querría... (replacing the conditional. Only with "querer", "poder" and "deber").La noticia que recibiera. (Archaic form that replaces the pluperfect indicative in some temporal clauses, and sometimes the preterit. Only found in newspapers.)Si pudieras venir, me alegrara mucho. (Archaic, literary and very unusual: it replaces the conditional in "si" sentences. Not recommended).The -se form has always been subjunctive (from Latin until now); the -ra form started as indicative, and ended up as subjunctive, along with the -se form, but still maintaining some "old" indicative values.

And I thought the present subjunctive was confusing. {sigh} I think I had better stick to recognizing this when I hear it for now.

Many thanks for the detailed explanation. Am I understanding correctly that in this sentence:

Si pudieras venir, me alegrara mucho.

it is the second verb that could / should be changed?

Si pudieras venir, me alegraría mucho.

Answer 6

Natasha said:

Many thanks for the detailed explanation. Am I understanding correctly that in this sentence: Si pudieras venir, me alegrara mucho. it is the second verb that could / should be changed?

Si pudieras venir, me alegraría mucho.

Maybe I didn't give enough warning: that sentence with "alegrara" sounds (almost everywhere) like pre-Shakespeare. Don't use it: stick to the normal "me alegraría", unless you want to write a book and make the characters speak as if they were in the 15th century (or earlier). That's what I meant by "archaic".

Answer 7

some times "fuera" mean like keep away from a place ej: fuera de mi casa= get away from my house
onother is your question, that mean like in the verb to be:a quien fuera que fuese la dama de blanco.
that mean the lady who was in white

she was + femenine = fuera
he was +masculine = fuese
but you can use fuese like in the phrase is who

those word have a lot of meanings.