Spanglish!

Question

Hola a todos,

Me gustaría preguntar sus opiniones individuales sobre el uso de 'Spanglish' o la alternacia entre los códigos (ingles y espanol) en los Estados Unidos...

Por ejemplo:

• ¿Porqué piensa se ocurre?
• ¿Cuáles son sus opiniones sobre el uso de Spanglish?
• etcétera...

Un abrazo
:o)

Answer 1

Answer 2

Mark W wrote:
Some of the local hispanics tried to converse with the Spaniards. It was actually embarrassing to watch.

Mark, I don't completely disagree with you, but to play devil's advocate...

What we have in the situation you describe is on the one hand a language with a long political and cultural history (standard Iberian Spanish), and with all the codification that goes along with that history. On the other hand is a dialect of that language, with a relatively short history and no codification. However, both languages work perfectly well for their users in the users' own environment. It is only when the users of one try to communicate with the users of the other that problems are encountered.

It is easy to say that the Spanglish is incorrect because it lacks codification, and that the standard Spanish is correct because it has the codification, but if an alien came down to Earth with no preconceptions, it would probably just consider the two versions to be equally valid languages. Therefore, we might just as easily say that it is sad that the Spaniards were unable to speak in Spanglish. Cultural factors are the only reason that viewpoint isn't even considered.

Of course, in the real world, speaking Spanglish will often make the speaker seem uneducated or backward, aside from the question of whether that is right or wrong. So, to a certain extent, I agree with you that it would be beneficial if people could speak at least one language in the generally accepted form. Still, I think Spaniards (in particular) are too hard on Spanglish speakers, and they really have no understanding of (or should I say empathy for) the social factors that combined to create Spanglish.

Answer 3

que? que que escribio le pregunto

If you are dealing only with people that are your friends -in my opinion then you can use words such as bironca, which means beer or quara for quarter which is a 25 cent U..S. coin. But, if you are at work or speaking formally, or wrting a memo or letter, then is better to use standard Spanish .

Standard Spanish for me is when all hispanoparlantes understand what you are saying or writing, and won't hurt your listener ears or eyes

Answer 4

El primer ejemplo de Spanish es "Hola a todos,". En español se escribiría "Hola a todos:".
Por otro lado, "ingles" se refiere a la entrepierna, mientras que el "inglés" es un idioma.
"¿Porqué..'" es incorrecto; debería haber sido "¿Por qué...'".

Antes de que parezca que estoy atacándote, te diré lo que pienso:

Todos los idiomas evolucionan naturalmente y de manera inevitable. Muchas veces lo hacen incorporando términos que no tienen, enriqueciendo el acervo lingüístico, y otras veces sencillamente acumulan términos que ya tienen. Otras veces, los términos nuevos reemplazan a los antiguos, sin lógica aparente. En cualquier caso, si es un fenómeno natural, se adapta lenta y progresivamente, pero el fenómeno reciente del Spanglish no responde a una adaptación global de las necesidades expresivas de un colectivo que comparte un código comunicativo, sino al hecho de que unos pocos que no dominan ni un idioma (el español), ni otro (el inglés), pero tienen que comunicarse de algún modo, usan de cada idioma lo que necesitan, sin lógica, adaptación progresiva, ni nada. El resultado es un híbrido desorganizado e impredecible que engloba el resultado aleatorio de varios miles de personas que intentan usar ambos idiomas en su favor, sin seguir ningún convenio idiomático conocido. No se puede culpar a estas personas, pero idealizar esta forma aleatoria de comunicación es pegarle una patada (por parte de personas con poca cultura) al resultado lógico evolutivo de dos idiomas que han ido perfeccionándose y adaptándose a las necesidades del entorno durante varios siglos.

Answer 5

Con esta pregunta, has abierto una lata de gusanos. (Hablando de espanglés)

It occurs because languages are easily influenced by their environment. When Spanish is used frequently in a predominantly English environment, it is influenced. Just as Spanish was influenced by the Arabic spoken by the Moors who lived for centuries in Spain.

My opinion of it is that it is perfectly fine, IF used in the proper situations. Using it at a job interview, for example, would be a bad idea.

Answer 6

James Santiago said:

Con esta pregunta, has abierto una lata de gusanos. (Hablando de espanglés) It occurs because languages are easily influenced by their environment. When Spanish is used frequently in a predominantly English environment, it is influenced. Just as Spanish was influenced by the Arabic spoken by the Moors who lived for centuries in Spain. My opinion of it is that it is perfectly fine, IF used in the proper situations. Using it at a job interview, for example, would be a bad idea.

I think we agree here, then. It makes sense for some people to develop their own "Spanglish" if they haven't had the necessary education, but as soon as they come to you, and they say:

Me want take car.

... you have to draw a limit, here and now. Even if there are thousands of people who speak like that, it is unacceptable if you consider the whole picture. Otherwise, everything goes, and a temporary economical situation, resulting in a poor education (or lack of it), can ruin centuries of delicate tweaks on an imperfect linguistic system that has been just trying to improve through trial an error. All these efforts can easily be erased and forgotten by ignorance. To me, this is the purpose of learning History.

Answer 7

Pero claro que si, no seria un buen idea de usar ningun forma coloquial en una oficina!

Lo que interesame es su entendimiento del 'Standard Spanish'. Me siento que el espanol habitual es la lengua academica, como soy una extranjera. Pero quizas tienes razon, como linguisticamente lo que se considera la 'estandar' es lo que es usado habitualmente...

Answer 8

This is exactly the can of worms I wished to open..!

As language is a developing thing, nobody can really say at which point it becomes a 'standard' except maybe to say that the standard refers to the majority of persons speaking it at that point in time. Similarly the grammatical element is open to development, and changes with time. Halting the process of that development (or resisting change, different uses in grammar, etc.) can in some cases result in a slow decline in the number of people speaking it - 'Franglais' is a good example of this - French youth increasingly resort to the use of English or English phrases because they're seen as more 'now'...

Plenty of people use English with grammar borrowings from another language, which although confusing, doesn't necessarily hinder communication - strangely I find the most resistance to Spanish occurring from hispanohablantes - do any anglohablantes care to 'pitch an opinion' on this?

Lazarus, you are right to correct my appalling grammar and English-isms whilst writing online, although I must also add that I was lazy anyway (if you read again, I left out my accents because they're difficult to add on this pc)...I shall be more careful...when I have more time! Thanks for that. I'll improve with practice, as we all do...

So - my next question to Lazarus is this - what about the people that switch from English to Spanish who speak both perfectly? Aren't you stereotyping a little?

:o)

Answer 9

I find the most resistance to Spanish occurring from hispanohablantes - do any anglohablantes care to 'pitch an opinion' on this'

That seems natural to me. That is, on the global stage, Spanish is the "inferior" language, in terms of presence, power, and prestige, so hispanohablantes naturally want to protect their beloved language against encroachment by the more powerful intruder (English). This is human nature, and applies to French as well (and many other languages). French used to be the lingua franca (hehe), but now it's English. Some day, it will be another language, maybe Chinese. If Chinese ever did become the default international language, I think Americans and other English speakers would try to protect English from Chinese encroachment. "Stop using Chinese-isms!" would be the rallying cry.

So, to me it's natural that Spanish speakers fear Spanglish more than English speakers do, because the latter aren't worried that Spanish will "take over" their language.

Así opino yo.

Answer 10

I grew up in San Antonio Texas, the home of Spanglish. Personally I don't like it. What occurs in an English speaking society when a cultural element within that society speak Spanish is that actual Spanish is never perfected. I don't mean to insult anyone, but you asked the question.

I have seen it time and time again. It is just too easy to insert English words or phrases when the Spanish equivalent is not known. What you end up with is people who cannot speak either language well. Sorry if that is harsh, but it is true.

Here are a couple of examples. About 12 years ago a group of Spaniards did a tour on replicas of the ships that Columbus came to America on. They happened to harbor in Corpus Christi Texas. Some of the local hispanics tried to converse with the Spaniards. It was actually embarrassing to watch. They simply could not speak without using English or they didn't know the proper Spanish terms. Other times I have seen local hispanics interviewed on Spanish speaking news stations. The journalists on Spanish news channels do speak Spanish well. The people being interviewed struggled mightily in their attempt to converse in complete Spanish. It's actually pretty sad to watch.

Answer 11

Lazarus said:

:

Otherwise, everything goes, and a temporary economical situation, resulting in a poor education (or lack of it), can ruin centuries of delicate tweaks on an imperfect linguistic system that has been just trying to improve through trial an error.

What do you mean by a temporary economical situation'