guacamole, guadalupe, guapo

Question

Why do I hear so many native speakers of Spanish, mostly from Mexico, pronounce these words as Wacamole, Wadalupe, and Wapo, when the dictionary says it is supposed to be gooacamole, gooadalupe, and gooapo'? I've been pronouncing these words with the W sound at the beginning and now there's this discord in my office as to the "correct" pronunciation.

Answer 1

Add to the list Aqua. I've always heard people pronounce it as Awa.

Answer 2

I don't know what's wrong with the editor (I cannot edit my own messages). I've never heard any of the other words pronounced with a "w" sound. Where are you? I'm in Texas.

Answer 3

The initial G in words such as these is pronounced, at least by many Spanish speakers, very softly. It's not quite the same as a W, but I agree that to the English ear it sounds like that. The same is true for words like agua, which can sound like awa.

The English W is more closely approximated in Spanish by vowel diphthongs, as in Oaxaca and hueco. Ask your friends to pronounce these words side by side with your G words, and I think you'll hear a subtle difference. Then just try to mimic that sound. Language is like music, and some people just can't hear the "notes," but I bet you'll hear it.

Answer 4

It also depends on the part of Mexico. Mexicans in Guadalajara (at least, the ones I knew) pronounced "g" quite recognizably.

Answer 5

I'm in Austin, TX too. Most of my native speaker examples are working class men from Mexico, whom I met working in construction. However there are bilinguals born on this side, and educated native speakers mixed in as well. I think the truest truth is that it's regional, socio-economic and personal differences that account for most of the variation. Thank you for replying.

Stephanie said:

I don't know what's wrong with the editor (I cannot edit my own messages). I've never heard any of the other words pronounced with a "w" sound. Where are you? I'm in Texas.

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Answer 6

My point is that the way it is pronounced is much closer to a W in English than a G in English. I don't dispute that there is a difference between the initial sounds in guapo and oaxaca, and I can hear it. I dispute the normal hard G English pronunciation used on this dictionary "gooapo". Not only is there a hard G but an extra syllable added. It's much closer to Wapo than gooapo.

James said:

The initial G in words such as these is pronounced, at least by many Spanish speakers, very softly. It's not quite the same as a W, but I agree that to the English ear it sounds like that. The same is true for words like agua, which can sound like awa.The English W is more closely approximated in Spanish by vowel diphthongs, as in Oaxaca and hueco. Ask your friends to pronounce these words side by side with your G words, and I think you'll hear a subtle difference. Then just try to mimic that sound. Language is like music, and some people just can't hear the "notes," but I bet you'll hear it.

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Answer 7

My point is that the way it is pronounced is much closer to a W in English than a G in English. I don't dispute that there is a difference between the initial sounds in guapo and oaxaca, and I can hear it. I dispute the normal hard G English pronunciation used on this dictionary "gooapo". Not only is there a hard G but an extra syllable added. It's much closer to Wapo than gooapo.

I see what you mean now. But if the dictionary here is giving three syllables, then that is definitely an error, because in any dialect, guapo is only two syllables. When the G is pronounced hard, it sounds like gwapo, and when the G is soft, it sounds sort of like wapo.

Answer 8

this is very simple, in Mexico, there are a lot of different forms of pronunciation, there are very different accents in the north, in middle Mexico, in south and in southeast. Both pronunciations are well pronounced, no need to discuss. The consonants sound very different if you hear Spanish from Spain, Colombia, Argentina, or Chile too.

Answer 9

I finally took time to listen to the word here, but I hear nothing wrong with it. It doesn't sound to me like there is an extra syllable, and the G sound is what I have found to be standard (although the softer G is also common).

Answer 10

Nothing strange with that. Actually, it was proposed the spelling "Güisqui" for "Whisky", but it was not very popular. The combination GU (when the "u" retains its individual sound) is pretty close to the W, specially if the G is soft, and particularly in the sequence GUA, where the W sound is naturally present.

Answer 11

My in laws are from mexico and they do not say wuatamala. They say it with a "J" pronunciation like Juatamala if anything. I guess it would depend on the part of mexico? I work with a woman from Belise (horrible spelling right') haha and she speaks a different dialect than my husband who is from Jalisco. I agree with SoKuhl.

Answer 12

Thanks to everybody for the input. It seems to be regional variation. Too bad folks from some regions have to look down on the accents of folks from others. (myself included...some accents of English just drive me nuts) BTW, strictly speaking, different dialects are mutually unintelligible, so it would actually be different accents.

Answer 13

James said:

BTW, strictly speaking, different dialects are mutually unintelligible, so it would actually be different accents.

I don't think that's correct. Here is the definition of dialect.

A regional or social variety of a language distinguished by pronunciation, grammar, or vocabulary, especially a variety of speech differing from the standard literary language or speech pattern of the culture in which it exists: Cockney is a dialect of English.

If two languages are mutually unintelligible, such as Mandarin and Cantonese, they are separate languages. That's pretty much the definition of a language. Of course, there are many gray areas, because whether languages are actually mutually intelligible is subjective. I don't understand some Australian, Kiwi, and British English words, but I understand more than enough to consider them dialects of my language. The English spoken in some Caribbean islands is much more difficult for me to understand, so I'm not sure whether it crosses over from being a dialect to being a separate language. Furthermore, many Spanish speakers tell me they understand a large proportion of Portuguese and Italian, so again, there could be debate about these, although virtually everyone agrees that these are distinct languages and not dialects. So, it's a continuum. But for two speech sets to be dialects, there MUST be at least a considerable amount of mutual intelligibility.

Answer 14

The distinction is also complicated by the widespread use of "dialect" in such situations as you describe (Mandarin/Cantonese and Hakka and Fukenese). Dona Leon (who writes murder mysteries set in Venice) frequently has some character make reference to the Venetian "dialect" being unintelligible to other Italians. Nonetheless, I normally make the same distinction as James Santiago when talking to other language "enthusiasts" (or to myself).

Answer 15

Trivia regarding the word guapo:

The soft pronunciation of the G is also found in some Italian dialects, and this is where we got the word wop (derogatory name for Italians). Says Wiki:

The Neapolitan word "guappo" means "a person who flaunts an overbearingly cocky and swaggering attitude." In Italy, the term "guappo" is still used, often sarcastically, to describe those young native men who really try hard to act brave, play cool, court every pretty girl, and those that are arrogant to the point of inducing a fight.

It was brought to the USA by early Italian immigrants from the province of Campania, who named those suspected to belonging to the Guapperia 'Guappi', in a similar fashion the Sicilians used the term 'Mafiosi'. Widely used in Chicago where most immigrants from Campania settled - one of its native sons Al Capone was a typical Guappo - it was confused by the non-Italian population to indicate people of Italian origins.