What Is The Point In Trying

Question

As noted in another thread I am 3 hours into my Pimsleur Spanish course.

I spent some time looking on the internet tonight at Pimsleur v Rosetta Stone v This V That and on each one people post things like - ' these CD's even level 3" will not make you fluent in a language.

Most post seem to be very critical of the courses.

Now, my ambition is to be able to speak a bit of pidgeon Spanish if I go to Panama, or Miami - but the posts on the sites that compare the teaching courses available are really quiet depressing.

Today is my first day at work and having to find my 1/2 an hour - which quite hondestly is pretty difficult to do.

So off outside to listen to lesson 8 and 'waste my time' 8 as the general opinion of CD courses goes.

Anyone get any more positive views '

• never quit - Edward-Denni Aug 18, 2009
• Hey Roger, I hope you don't mind me suggesting a couple of corrections, some I'm sure are just typos but to help our learners of English :) most 'posts', pidgin english, quite, honestly :) - Kiwi_Girl Oct 19, 2010

Answer 1

Ricardo,
I would like to know at what point in your language learning process, you are able to turn off the translating in your head.
It seems I always have to frame my sentences in my head before saying them. Conjugate the verb, stick that pronoun here & this one there, etc, etc., so as you see, it takes me awhile to speak, making for very sloooooow conversation.

Do you find that your brain just changes channels from one language to another? And why is your Italian so bad, accent, vocabulary or what? I know some people have the gift for learning a language, just wish I was one of them.

I did go to one class, where she taught only in Spanish, but I still found a way.

Answer 2

I am not sure about when your brain switches over.
I was lucky, i learned English as a small toddler so I never translated in my head. When I learned French, it was natural to think in French. I have met people that after 30 years speaking English in Australia, still translate from their original native non-English lanaguage...
Maybe it's a thing you do consciously and jump into the void and hope and after a while it becomes second nature.

As to my Italian... I never studied it properly so my grammar is woeful. Accent and vocabulary is not so much a problem as I have two other romance languages, Spanish and French, and I even studied Latin at high school.
But I picked up Italian here and there and have never spent any time seriously trying to get it right ( a low priority as I mostly use it in Italian restaurants!). If I did it, would improve heaps in no time. I got the hand mpovements down pat!

As to the brain channels...
I am not sure. When I speak in English i often get words in Spoanish or French come to mind while I am still thinking in English. So if it is a channel the signals get confused at times.
What I have noticed is that if I use Spanish words while I am speaking English I will pronounce them with an English accent.
Then again I always count in Spanish, as my wife once told me, without being aware of it. I can easily count or do maths in English but I must make a conscious effort to do it. If I don't think about it I will naturally revert to Spanish.

Be aware that I not only learned Engl;ish before I went to school but I also followed a bilingual education. I went to English school in the morning and Spanish school in the afternoon studying often the same subjects in both languages. My parents spoke both languages and often spoke to me in either of them. So I don't know why the counting in Spanish is so strong.

As to your problem, I would suggest you take a plunge and try and think in Spanish. Do it consciuously at first and see if it becomes unconscious with time. don't worry about getting it right all the time. Just speak it. Remember that the four stages of learning are:
1. Unconscious ingnorance (you don't know what you don't know.)
2.Conscious ignorance (you know you don't know)
3. Conscious knowing (it takes an effort to use the skill)
4. Unconscious knowing (you use your skill and you are not aware of it.)

think of learning to ride a bicycle or driving a car for the four stages to become clear.

Hope this helps.
R

Answer 3

Thank you so much. It is definitely an advantage to learn when you are young. Little minds are sponges.

I have these little revelations. For instance, plantear doesn't mean propose, create, cause, pose, raise, suggest, it means plantear, so I'm hoping maybe that approach will help.

I want to accomplish as much as I can before this fall, when I plan on going to Mexico for an immersion Spanish class.

The counting thing is really strange. I knew a French Canadian, spoke perfect English, but counted in French. I also knew a Chinese girl raised in NY. We worked in a bank & she always counted her money in Chinese.

Answer 4

Your approach to plantear is good.
Thinking in another language means using the words when you would think of using them.

So you have to learn to associated thoughts to Spanish words, look at things and try and remember their names in Spanish. And don;t worry about the grammar rules. make up a sentence and just check to see it it sounds right.

That is an unfortunate problems of using this forum. A lot of the people that are helping are only half way through their learning and sometimes give the wrong advice with the best of intentions. But it is still better than not practicing.

Answer 5

Oh, don't lose it. I have a friend who was an exchange student in Mexico, now she says that she can't remember anything.
She also learned Vietnamese, when her husband was in the service & she can't remember that either. I have a feeling though, that they would come back fairly easy.

It's such a shame when other nationalities move to the USA & lose their native language.

Answer 6

In respose to "What is the point in trying'" my question is "What is the point in not trying'" You have nothing to lose, but everything to gain. Language learning is a lifelong journey. I don't think that anyone can truly say that they know every single thing about their native language, let alone a second language. I look at it as languages are the key to the world. We can only gain so much knowlege about the world through books. It isn't until you have the capacity for conversing with people from other countries and cultures that you can grasp what they are all about. For me it is more of a hobby and a source of enjoyment. I am sure that I learn something new each and everyday about Spanish. I know bits and pieces of several languages and have also at this stage of life started learning Turkish.

Answer 7

I tried the Pimsleur for Japanese. I didn't get very far, probably more due to the fact that my ears are bad. I would really love to learn Japanese and Italian. Italian has got to be one of the most beautiful sounding languages today, and there is so much culture and history with Japanese it's a shame I don't have better access to it.

I took a couple of years of Spanish in high school (1962-1964). I didn't learn much. Then a few years later I moved to Colombia for two years. Suddenly a lot of what I had been taught in high school seemed to make sense. After just a few months in Colombia (immersed for about 4 months) I was pretty much fluent, but still with a lot of errors. By six months I was thinking in Spanish and there were less errors. By the time I returned to the US my Spanish was pretty good (not as good as a native speaker, of course). That was in 1972.

Since then I've always lamented the fact that I really didn't have any opportunities to keep up my Spanish. I've lost a huge amount of vocabulary and some of the verb structures. Recently, my wife and I moved to an area where there are lots of native Spanish speakers. My Spanish was bad when we first got here, but it's coming back faster than I expected. I think I'll be able to get by when we go to Colombia this summer (assuming we'll actually get to go).

I have never regretted learning Spanish, only that I've forgotten so much. Even what I didn't learn in high school seemed to come back while I was immersed. Don't give up on the Pimsleur and other methods, but be aware that other methods may work better for you. Always the best option is immersion, but as someone said, that's not available to 99.9% of those who want to learn.

Best of luck to you
¡Que Dios le bendiga!

Answer 8

I've tried the rosetta stone (I haven't finished it yet) but I'm on the second disk and I already know just by what I've done so far that it would be silly to think that I could be fluent by the time I finish the third disk.

That doesn't mean I don't think it's a good program. I think it is great! I really recommend it. It associates pictures and sounds and there is no english as a crutch. You work out what the pictures have in common with the sounds and words and trough trial and error it is so much more memorable than studying on your own. Try doing a section a day (probably an hour) and on the side watch some spanish tv or do some other activity in spanish in your free time.

To expect to be fluent soon, I really recommend the site alljapaneseallthetime.com. Just substitute Japanese with Spanish. It really helped me learn Japanese very quickly just because I could trade off all of my english activities and make them in Japanese. After placing into the second class in college, I decided to give it up for focusing on Spanish, but the few months I practiced I was racing past the beginner's Japanese course by just putting the time in.

Answer 9

Well... I tried Pimsleur for Italian and I'd say I liked it. But for Spanish language I found much more interesting and useful resources. It's not CD courses but free audio/video programs that are much better in my opinion (and cheaper ) I'm not sure if I can put ads here but a lot of people already mentioned some, so:

---

1. Destinos - Introduction to Spanish - TV series perfect for beginners. Just spanish - no english comments. There is a plot and a lot of episodes give you information about spanish speaking countries, its culture and traditions - not only Spain but also Argentina, Mexico, Puerto-Rico,... Watching last episodes I could understand every word they were saying! I think I really made a big progress thanks to this program. Free online
2. Notes in Spanish Podcast - this podcast is just great. The guys are really cool and they give a lot of speaking spanish phrases that you won't find in the normal lessons. Free podcasts and a lot of supplementary materials here

---

I really think these resources can help a lot. Combining grammar articles, SpanishDict.com lessons and watching/listening to native spanish from these programs I think I made a big progress studying spanish.

Hope it'll help!

Answer 10

I agree with the previous comments - the best way to learn a language is by total immersion (and at the earliest age possible!).

If, like most, you are not able to go to a Spanish-speaking country and live there for a while, you can try and attempt immersion at home.

1. Learn: Choose a Spanish class where the teacher and students speak only Spanish, no (or very minimal) English should be used.
2. Watch: Watch Spanish programmes on telly, watch Spanish films on DVD (you can cheat and put on the subtitles the second time you watch it), etc.
3. Listen: Put on a Spanish radio station or listen to Latin music CDs (the Buena Vista Social Club have pretty clear accents and you can access their lyrics online to read along with listening to the music).
4. Read: My least favourite part, if I'm honest! Try and read a news report or an article from a magazine, or even a children's book in Spanish.
5. Practice: Use flashcards, stick lists of vocab up on the bathroom mirror (you can read it while you brush your teeth!), etc.
6. Fun: Try to have fun with it - play role games with other learners, use the SpanishDict website, play games, make up poems or do puzzles in Spanish, etc.

.
Basically, try and get as much Spanish around you as you can manage... and don't be too hard on yourself - I certainly wouldn't expect to become fluent in only 3 hours of listening exercises!! .
Suerte con tus estudios

Answer 11

I've spent about 4 hours a day studying Spanish grammar and vocabulary for the last year or so, including living in Ecuador for the last 8 1/2 months which has given me lots of additional time to listen to and try to speak Spanish every day. My reading and writing are still far ahead of my speaking, and I consider myself to only be at the advanced beginner level. I think it will take two more years for me to become fluent and I will never be mistaken for a native. Part of that is due to being over 50 and having a slower learning rate than when I was young.

I also noticed that when I neglected grammar and conjugation practice to concentrate on vocabulary, I backslid rapidly.