la degeneración de gran parte de su nobleza...

Question

Dear All, I have trouble on translating the last sentence of this paragraph (italicized). Can anybody help?

"¿Era, realmente, perversa aquella socieda? Tal vez sí. en sus clases superiors. Mas no en el pueblo, eterno niño, cándido, y bondadoso. Sin que yo pretenda formular una acusación contra la alta sociedad española de entonces, que tuvo tipos ejemplares. Sí afirmo que a la degeneración de gran parte de su nobleza debió el pueblo su abyección aparente."

Many thanks and happy holidays!

• very nice question, welcome to the forum:) - Heidita Dec 27, 2011

Answer 1

Hi, dumpling!

Great sentence, but it has got a really weird word order... and punctuation:

¿Era, realmente, perversa aquella sociedad? Tal vez sí en sus clases superiores, mas no en el pueblo, eterno niño, cándido y bondadoso. Sin pretender formular una acusación contra la alta sociedad española de entonces, que tuvo tipos ejemplares, sí afirmo que el pueblo debió su abyección aparente a la degeneración de gran parte de su nobleza.

Good job!

Answer 2

Sí afirmo que a la degeneración de gran parte de su nobleza debió el pueblo su abyección aparente."

I do affirm though that the people's apparent abjection was due to the degeneration of big part of its nobility .

I am sure somebody can improve this translation.

However , it makes perfect sense in Spanish, very complicated sentence.

Easier said: Yo sin embargo sí afirmo que la gente debió su mala vida/su aparente maldad a la degeneración de gran parte de la nobleza .

I wonder if he is talking about their apparent vilness or thier humiliation...hmmm, not too clear, even though I guess the first, as he is saying that the people (el pueblo) were not vile or bad, it was the high society that made them that way.

Answer 3

Sí afirmo que a la degeneración de gran parte de su nobleza debió el pueblo su abyección aparente.

This subordinate clause of this sentence does not make sense to me grammatically. It only has one verb (deber), but there doesn't seem to be a good way to assign the objects and subject without rewording the sentence.

Answer 4

However , it makes perfect sense in Spanish, very complicated sentence.

So el pueblo su abyección aparente is the subject, and means la abyección aparente del pueblo? (I didn't know you could do this.)

And a la degeneración de gran parte de su nobleza is the indirect object?

Edit:

After reading cogumela's post, I see that su abyección aparente is the direct object. . .even though it looks weird, it does make sense.

Thanks

• jeeeeeez, nobody ever sees me any more...:::sigh:::: - Heidita Dec 27, 2011
• I quoted you. . .but I was still confused - lorenzo9 Dec 28, 2011

Answer 5

I apologize for the mistake of my part, since the copy I have for this sentence is a bit difficult to read, particularly the punctuation. this is the correct version for the last sentence: "...que tuvo tipos ejemplares, sí afirmo que el pueblo debió su abyección aparente a la degeneración de gran parte de su nobleza."

• makes no difference really, it is clearer this way round though, welcome to the forum again, you already got your answer above:) - Heidita Dec 29, 2011

Answer 6

Yep. It doesn't make any sense in Spanish. There's a lack of verbs, I guess

Answer 7

Thank you so much Heidita, lorenzo9, cogumela and fraamn! I understand this sentence better now! I have the same question as Heidita:

"I wonder if he is talking about their apparent vilness or thier humiliation...hmmm, not too clear, even though I guess the first"

Even in English, the word abjection has different meaning too...

Answer 8

It sounds to me like this particular individual's behavior, due to society's influence,has fallen from the town's graces.

Answer 9

On further reflection, I think the original sentence is grammatically incorrect. Since the indirect object precedes the verb, it should be "le debió".