Problemas para los hispanohablantes en la aula de clase

Question

Hola! Soy estudiante universitaria. Estudio enseñanza de español. Este semestre realizo mis prácticas de enseñanza. Esta semana los estudiantes tomaron un examen sobre el tiempo presente. Y lo que me dio un choque fue que los hispanohablantes sacaron peores notas que los anglohablantes. Hablé con la maestra de la clase y ella me dijo que eso es muy común entre los hispanohablantes. Ellos no entienden nuestra manera de aprender el español. Ellos deciden tomar la clase porque piensan que va a ser una clase facil pero no lo es. Qué opinan? Por qué es tan difícil para los hispanohablantes? Se debe permitir que ellos tomen una clase así?

Hello! I'm a university student. I study Spanish education. This semestre I'm doing my student-teaching. This week the students took a test about the present tense. And what shocked me was that the Spanish speakers got worse grades than the English speakers. I talked to the teacher of the class, and she told me that this is very common among the Spanish speakers. They don't understand our way of learning Spanish. They decide to take the class because they think that it's going to be an easy class, but it isn't. What are your opinions? Why is it so hard for Spanish speakers? Should it be allowed for them to take a class like this?

Gracias!

• Asi?? Como que?. A ver un ejemplo - fox10 Sep 24, 2011
• el aula - lorenzo9 Sep 24, 2011
• There ought to be a way for them to test out of the basic courses and perhaps focus on the advanced level. If they are taking the class as a bird course (fly through, a little idiomatic expression for you) than they are cheating themselves - ramthor Sep 24, 2011
• gracias lorenzo - Debiera Sep 24, 2011

Answer 1

As I understand it, grammar is second nature for most native speakers, and when tasked with the technical breakdown of one's own language, it becomes increasingly difficult to explain. Perhaps they are over thinking it?

Answer 2

I would imagine they are confronted by a huge list of rules that they already know are incorrect because of their understanding of actual usage. I think the problem is not with the students, but with the way native English speakers are taught Spanish.

• Amen. :) - dogwood Sep 24, 2011
• You tell them, Lorenzo!! - territurtle Sep 24, 2011
• As an English teacher I disagree, you might naturally understand the difference between "will" and "going to" without being able to explain it but a learner needs it explained. - rabbitwho Sep 25, 2011
• I couldn't agree more - cogumela Sep 25, 2011

Answer 3

I don't want to raise a negative thought, but it is possible that the generally lower grades that you are seeing for hispanic students in your classes may be because these students are doing more poorly in all their classes. The supposed problems of a Spanish speaker learning classroom Spanish may have little to do with it. Graduation rates for hispanic students are lower than for other students because of the socio-economic challenges they face.

• Good point. :) - dogwood Sep 24, 2011
• Estoy de acuerdo. - territurtle Sep 24, 2011

Answer 4

To add a further thought, I went through who knows how many years of English (including one year at college level that I was forced to take to get my degree), and Heidita still laughs at my English at times. You do not say where you are, but my experience in the US is that Spanish speakers that are raised in the US get no formal training in their language, and so would not be expected to know the formalities of grammar.

I find the same thing with English speakers that I deal with, that supposedly have been trained in their language. I ask someone why they say something a certain way, and the answer is always because that is how it sounds right. If I ask them a rule, they can't tell me. If I answer an English question here, I always have to look up the rule.

This is probably compounded by the fact that since they can speak the language, they feel they do not have to put the effort in to it, so don't study.

To me it would make sense to offer separate Spanish classes for Spanish speakers, that are the equivalent of English classes for English speakers.

• ;) U.S. is always spelled with periods. I guess to distinguish it from an uppercase "us?" - territurtle Sep 24, 2011
• Case in point, I am sure we could pick out a few other errors as well. ;-) - Stadt Sep 24, 2011

Answer 5

BruceBell made a very valid point. I must add, people take their native language for granted, they speak it almost innately without giving a thought on how it really works. The vast majority of people rarely wonder about the mechanism by which they're able to breathe or how their hearts beat.

How about you give an advanced grammar and punctuation test to your students who are native English speakers. I must warn you, brace yourself for the shock of your teaching career. English is my second language, but I studied and later worked with native English speakers, I know what I'm talking about.

• You are right on!! [A propósito, it is *not* grammatically incorrect to begin a sentence with digits, but "stylistically," it's almost never done in formal writing. We spell out the numbers. Of course, here we are informal! ] - territurtle Sep 24, 2011
• Thank you, Terri. :) - SpanishPal Sep 25, 2011

Answer 6

I ask someone why they say something a certain way, and the answer is alway because that is how it sounds right. If they ask them a rule, they can't tell me. If I answer an English question here, I always have to look up the rule.

I agree with this. I have never been taught the rules of English grammar, I passed both my English O levels with good grades, many years ago, and have studied to several subjects to degree level. So I think my command of the language is reasonable, but if I want to explain why something is said the way it is I have to look it up.

• When I was in middle school I had to take English. The teacher asked the class who the "subject" was in a sentence where the subject was implied. I had no idea what a subject even was, yet I passed. - Fredbong Sep 24, 2011

Answer 7

hi Debs

• hi hecho jaja - Debiera Sep 25, 2011

Answer 8

Deben de tener unas chanzas para terminar este curso.

• ;) - territurtle Sep 24, 2011

Answer 9

I bet if you gave any native English speaker a test on choosing the right future form they'd fail it. Natives aren't aware of the grammatical differences between "a plan" "an arrangement" and an "instant decision" and while they'd always chose the right tense in real life, out of context they'd fail the test.

Edit: The other people pointed out there might be a difference in literacy levels which I hadn't thought of, there's a girl in my Spanish class who seems to speak Spanish fluently but she's stuck with us in intermediate because she never learned to read or write it, only English.

Answer 10

Nadie sabe todo de su lengua, es verdad. Nuestro idioma es algo que nunca dejamos de aprender. Pero, en este caso, me inclino a pensar como Lorenzo: demasiadas deficiencias en la enseñanza del español como segunda lengua.

Answer 11

There is a big difference between the teaching styles of a native language in comparison to a "second" language. I am old enough to have actually been taught grammar in elementary school in the US (note that the use of periods in intialisms is optional), but the grammar was explanations of things we aready knew how to use correctly. . .with some exceptions, such as diagramming sentences. There were also some overly perscriptive rules mentioned that are simply not followed in modern English except by a few grammarians uncomfortably carrying their sticks.

Second languages are taught in a different manner: people are taught the rules first. In the case of Spanish, many concepts are introduced as lists of rules which become increasingly confusing as the numerous exceptions are encountered. Many native speakers look at these rules simply say that they are incorrect; including things as basic as the "temporary vs. permanent" rule for ser and estar, the sequence of tenses when using the subjunctive, which form of the past tense to use, how to use se, or when to use the subjunctive or indicative. Native speakers can't learn these incorrect rules because they know they are wrong and they can't get past the many exceptions that immediately come to mind.

Note about comments below:

I agree that it would be difficult to learn a second language the same way as the first one once you are past a certain age. However, I believe that lazarus has posted links to people who successfully teach foreign languages without grammar and seem to do so more rapidly than with conventional approaches. For me, the traditional approach involving learning grammar seemed a better path to follow.

My problem is not that the approaches are different, but that the "simplified" rules taught to beginners in Spanish have too many exceptions, and the resulting unlearning process adds unnecessary confusion. In some cases, lazarus has posted simpler rules that actually seem to work, and students would be better off if they learned these instead of the laundry list rules.

• Plenty people have tried to teach adults in the same way as children learn. It doesn't work. - rabbitwho Sep 25, 2011
• I know learning grammar rules works because I've seen it work. With constant study you can get from A2 to C1 in 2 years, I have seen it. And the girl was Czech and living in the Czech Republic so her language was unrelated to English. - rabbitwho Sep 25, 2011
• That was the extreme, but most people manage it in 5 years. The people who think they can learn without study never do well and never learn to communicate properly. We are not children anymore we have to learn in our own way. - rabbitwho Sep 25, 2011