Can somebody explain the grammar of this phrase to me?

Question

A los niños se les debe ver pero no oír. = Children should be seen and not heard.

• that really is tricky! - patch Sep 18, 2011
• Welcome to the forum, :) - Heidita Sep 18, 2011

Answer 1

I'm guessing you mean the Spanish version? I'll have a go although I'm sure someone will come along and do a better job presently je je

a = personal 'a'

los niños = the children

se - often used in Spanish to form a passive construction without saying who is doing the action of the verb, a bit like our 'one should' or 'you should' but not really meaning 'you' personally

les - direct object (refers to the children)

debe - should

ver - infinitive (to) see

pero = but

no = not

oír = infinitive (to) hear

So all together: A los niños se les debe ver pero no oír

A los niños (talking about the children)

se les debe = one, them ,should

ver = see

pero no oír = but not hear

• seems that Laz is on holiday so you are the new grammar guru KG - patch Sep 18, 2011
• ja ja definitely not, watch this space I'm sure to have my musings quickly blown to pieces by someone who actually knows what they're talking about lol :) - Kiwi_Girl Sep 18, 2011
• I'm serious. This is a wonderfully simple explanation. Kudos. - patch Sep 18, 2011
• aw thanx :) - Kiwi_Girl Sep 18, 2011
• wow, really simply put! - dewclaw Sep 18, 2011
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Answer 2

Does one actually use this phrase in Spanish-speaking countries? Are children to be seen and not heard as they are in, I suppose, Anglo-Saxon ones?...English-speaking ones? The Spanish sounds "translated" to me...from the English, I mean. Not like a real Spanish one such as "....como agua de mayo"...(not perhaps a good example, but one I just learned)

• probably a close equivalent to be said to children who have too much to say would be 'cuando seas padres, comerás huevos' je je :) - Kiwi_Girl Sep 18, 2011

Answer 3

Deberse: Passive (i.e. no named actor)

The "les" is used because "A los ninos" was said before the verb (deberse).

If it wasn't said like so, then it would be " Se debe ver pero no oir a los ninos"

But like Kiwi, I'm not entirely sure. This is just my sense of things.

• addendum: it could also be said "se les debe ver pero no oir a los ninos" because los ninos is a pronoun and not a noun. i think haha - DonCiro Sep 18, 2011

Answer 4

Maybe the confusing part is the order. If so, i'll give it a try.

Normally word order is subject - verb - object. So we would build this sentence like:

Se debe ver pero no oír a los niños.

No real subject here as Kiwi_Girl said.

se debe ver - verb part

a los niños - object

To emphasise object we can put it in front of the sentence but then we have to repeat it in acurate pronoun (here: les).

A los niños se les debe ver pero no oír.

It is the question of a style and also for not confusing who the subject/object is. Example:

Mi abuela está preparando la paella. - My grandmother is preparing paella.

La paella la está preparando mi abuela. - Meaning as above, but without "la" it would be: Paella is preparing my groundmother.