I downgraded myself to beginner

Question

I thought because I can read and understand Spanish, and because I can understand most of what I hear that I'm intermediate. Unfortunately, without having the structural background I'm just not there. So for now call me Lalo Novicio.

**I suddenly feel justified.

• I felt the same way, but was badgered into changing my status to imtermediate. - qfreed Jul 24, 2011
• beginner - qfreed Jul 24, 2011
• me too but dont worry we'll get there soon :) - eoraptor Jul 24, 2011
• Lalo, eres verdadamente loco! If you can read and understand Spanish, and even understand most of what you hear, you are no beginner! Para nada. What is important is TO COMMUNICATE in Spanish. Don't forget that! - Jeremias Jul 24, 2011
• Just keep working, posting sentences, studying the corrections...you'll get there, I promise - it will all come together for you!! - IndianaChris Jul 24, 2011
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Answer 1

I feel your pain.

Despite my own apprehensions about leaving the shallow beginner's waters, I too, on occasion, have been urged, prodded, pounded and pushed into the deeper waters by those who would swear that I already know how to swim. For the most part, I just walk around that treacherously sloped surface on the points of my toes, nose barely poking up out of the water and arms flailing about wildly in the desperate attempt to keep form sliding ever deeper into that cold and unforgiving abyss that is "the deep end." Every now and then I see a bit of sunshine and am able to reach the side of the pool and pull myself up enough to get most of my head out—you have to take joy in the little victories whenever you can come by them.

I don't know about beginner, intermediate or advanced, but as I look around, it's hard not to notice that most of the just-out-of-diapers, still-sucking-their-thumbs, Yo-Gabba-Gabba-watching four year olds can already swim laps around me, all while laughing as I flounder and flop about.

Unfortunately, I have also been cattle-prodded into donning the mantle of intermediate and am forever being belabored by the mantra, "You need to change your level to advanced." My only comments on this are that if the language highway were a one-way thoroughfare, I think I would be just dandy. I can understand the bulk of what I hear or read with little problem, and I have a relatively decent (whatever that means) understanding of basic syntax; unfortunately, when it comes to driving on the other side of the road, I always seem to become a blathering idiot and start tripping all over myself. Honestly, I don't think that I can string three words together in Spanish without constantly second guessing myself.

Initially I thought that I might compare my own skill level to that of your average trauma patient who has just suffered severe to crippling brain damage and hasn't yet had the chance to undergo any type of speech therapy—but then I realized that such a boisterous claim would likely be insulting to the trauma patient.

As it stands, I think that I will stick with low intermediate

• I wish I could write prose as nicely as that. - Stadt Jul 24, 2011
• well stated love it - pacofinkler Jul 24, 2011
• I with you too, man! I don't think I could have expressed it any better! - cristalino Jul 24, 2011
• I agree, this is quite well written. - jeezzle Jul 24, 2011
• I have often thought that learning another language is like recovering from a stroke. First, you can neither understand nor communicate. Then, you begin to understand but cannot communicate. Then, you can understand more and communicate a little. - JoyceM Jul 24, 2011
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Answer 2

Well for me l'm a beginner (please let me know if there's a lower level created that l don't know about )

When l first joined l was a beginner in both languages, and now l'm almost intermediate in English and still a beginner in Spanish

it takes a lot of time and a lot of practice to be intermediate and it depends on how much you want it and how much can your brain handle! for some people it's really hard to study a lesson in one day for others, well they can finish all the lessons in one day!

That's why l bought this absolutely wonderful thing!!

Buy it and get a mind-built dictionary in your head! only for 50$!

• Lower than a beginner?? yeah right - your spanish is really good....quit fooling yourself... :) and your English is excellent!! - IndianaChris Jul 24, 2011
• I need one of those caps! :) - pesta Jul 24, 2011
• Lovely, I think you're low-ballin' yourself....you are not a beginner...your Spanish is good!! Love the pic!! Besos - Jason7R Jul 24, 2011
• Only $50, huh? Do you have bulk rates? ;) - territurtle Jul 25, 2011
• I want one! - MLucie Jan 28, 2012
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Answer 3

My wife and I had a 3 hour lunch today with friends from the Dominican Republic. My friend from Honduras was with us as well. Our waitress was my Puerto Rican friend Nancy, so we really had a mix of accents.

I usually become a topic of conversation because I'm the only gringo in the group, but mainly because I'm a gringo that speaks Spanish. Near the end of our visit, I commented that I had lost my conversation practice partners and needed to find someone else to practice with, and la cuñada from the DR said, "there's nothing wrong with your Spanish. I can clearly understand everything you say."

I have no idea at what 'level' I'm supposed to be, that's the most irrelevant measure I can imagine, for me. My goal is to speak fluently with Spanish speaking people, and I know that I'm very close to that. Even if I couldn't ever pass a written test administered by a college professor that can't speak the language, I will never call myself a beginner again. I've been told over and over how I never give myself credit for my accomplishments and victories and I "beat myself up" for my failures.

I've never been asked the question "at what level are you in your Spanish studies?", nobody has ever asked me "do you think you're doing pretty good/bad with Spanish?" or whatever. My 'test' is how well I feel after sitting 3 hours in a restaurant conversing in Spanish without having to grunt to push words out of my mouth and I feel really good.

I understand that if you are studying to pass tests, and maybe that's where you get your "level" from, I have no idea. I personally know two college level Spanish teachers that are "advanced" in their knowledge, but I would rate them beginner in their ability to speak the language. That makes the purpose of being at a certain level even more confusing to me.

Having said all that, I really respect those that have a working knowledge of the grammar and the ways to apply it. Lazarus comes to mind, he knows stuff about language that I don't think you can find in a textbook. People like that have been such a tremendous help to me.

Estoy muy contento en este momento porque tuve un buen día y pude hablar claramente y entender bien mis amigos. No quiero nada más.

• This was the opinion I expressed in a comment elsewhere: can say certain things only= beginner, sustain real conversation= intermediate, sustain complicated (conceptual) conversation=advanced, get all the nuances and jokes= fluent. Nothing to do with... - Stadt Jul 24, 2011
• ...knowing grammar. At least not for those of us whose goal is just to be able to converse with people. - Stadt Jul 24, 2011
• Well, I understood two jokes today too, so I'm really on a roll :~) - Jack-OBrien Jul 24, 2011
• Also, I think you're assessment is pretty accurate. - Jack-OBrien Jul 24, 2011
• Great take, Jack. :-) - Izanoni1 Jul 24, 2011
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Answer 4

The more you learn, the more you realize there is left to learn.

I still list myself as a fairly early beginner in the bio part of the profile page. I am trying to get to the point where I feel comfortable moving myself to a mid-level beginner.

• I feel the same about many things, the longer I live the more I realise I know nothing - MaryMcc Jul 24, 2011
• You under estimate your skills,, I can't believe with your stats here,, you are not almost fluent,,jajajaj 2 Million in vocabulary.. - gene Jul 25, 2011
• 2 million in the same words over and over so that I don't forget them all the time. :-( - Stadt Jul 25, 2011

Answer 5

Well the club just increased in population by one.

Those of us that are not in formal classes or programs seem to become a polyglot of learning. I for one have absolutely no clue where to rate myself. I have the grammar of a beginner, the vocabulary of a solid intermediate and pronunciation that approaches native level. I use forms and conjugations that I do not know the names of (in english ). and in some forms not even the Spanish names.

maybe classifying yourself as intermediate would be a goal to reach for!

• In other words, Paco, (perhaps) you are learning the language in a way approaching the natural way. Would that we all could. Great observation. - TejanoViejo Jul 24, 2011

Answer 6

jack o Brian said:

My goal is to speak fluently with Spanish speaking people, and I know that I'm very close to that.

Great, we are happy to see that from now on , you are going to post in Spanish, good job, as so far, you have always only posted in English

Answer 7

You can be fluent in Spanish and be completely ignorant of its grammatical rules. Most seven-year-olds in Spanish-speaking countries are exactly that.

In fact, you can be an illiterate adult native Spanish speaker, totally fluent in spoken Spanish but unable to read and ignorant of grammatical rules. For such a person even "advanced" is inadequate. They are fluent. They are awesome at Spanish, but they probably shouldn't try to teach anyone Spanish grammar (that's not to say they can't teach someone Spanish, though, because illiterate, grammar-ignorant people teach their children fluent Spanish / English all the time).

I'm thinking you can put yourself back at intermediate, maybe even advanced (it's totally your call...I prefer to undershoot it a little, though). Just know your limits when giving answers.

I DON'T understand much of what I hear, but because I can read and write it and have a modest grasp of the grammar, I put myself at intermediate. I consider the ability to understand spoken Spanish to be a far better skill, one which I covet much.

I find intermediate a comfortable level. Nobody is surprised when I answer something a bit complicated. Nobody is surprised when I make stupid mistakes now and then.

But these levels are nothing outside of this forum. In real life, being able to quickly understand spoken Spanish and being able to quickly speak it are what counts. Two things I can't really do.

• I agree,,, just because you can speak a language,, probably does not qualify much without ability to read and write it.. I find if I could only speak and not read signs,, I am not to agressive in learning the language. - gene Jul 25, 2011

Answer 8

Welcome to the club - me too

Just because I'd listened to loads of cd's and read a few on-line books I initially thought I was intermediate. After about 2 days participating on this forum I realised that actually I was lower than a rattlesnakes belly! If there was a level below beginner, that would have been me.

• You and me both!! - territurtle Jul 25, 2011

Answer 9

Don't get discouraged, and understand that time spent reading these forums should NOT be taken into account as time spent learning since much of it is really spent playing, and not learning at all. It's a good way to fool yourself, the best learning is talking with natives OR listening to TV shows, FYI you can find the subtitulos around the net, look for "Subtitulado" or subtitulos. PS take a break from the "rules" because compound sentences, clauses etc... are great for in the classroom but less so for actually speaking and knowing the language. Gracias

• Please don't assume, Jeezle, that "play" is not learning "at all," because it certainly is -- or, at least, can be. Still, I have to "vote you up" here, because, aside ONLY from the "at all," yours is an excellent insight. - TejanoViejo Jul 24, 2011
• Ok sure it is a part, but one must consider that one hour on these forums usuallys equates to about 20 minutes of learning, as opposed to straight listening comprehension practice etc... which is pure learning, of course its an essential part too. - jeezzle Jul 24, 2011
• That's why I generally keep my youtube playlists playing on repeat in the backgroiund throughout the day - Izanoni1 Jul 24, 2011
• If you can understand spoken Spanish and have fluent conversations, IMO, you are past Intermediate. I pray simply to maybe watch a moving in Spanish one day without use of Subtitles jajaja I do live with a only Spanish speaking person, we make it okayjaaj - gene Jul 25, 2011
• Well the key is to use the Spanish subtitles not the English ones, so you can watch it in Spanish, with the Spanish subtitles. You have to be careful though because sometimes what they say doesn't match the subtitles exactly. - jeezzle Jul 25, 2011
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Answer 10

I keep my eye on the ball. I genuinely have a passion to learn Spanish, and I want to be able to read, listen and maintain conversations. Everything else will follow.

Here are some good tips:

Read as many books as you can in Spanish.

Watch Spanish videos with and without subtitles.

Find the courage to speak in Spanish, though you may be mortally afraid of messing up.

Practice grammar and writing as much as you can.

Keep looking for new ways to improve your abilities.

Your improvement will really show:

You'll be able to comprehend Spanish passages.

Your listening and speaking will improve.

You will be able to maintain long, difficult conversations.

You will be able to pass tests.

Your "Spanish level" will increase over time.

---

Which of these points is most important to you? Take your pick, but your improvement will involve all of these points as long as you keep practicing as much as you can. And remember... no hay mal que por bien no venga... you say you've downgraded to beginner, but you haven't gotten worse, you've actually learned something

• Lo aprecio mucho. - LaloLoco Jul 24, 2011
• wise words mate - billygoat Jul 25, 2011
• Thank you, amigos :) - GuitarWarrio Jul 25, 2011

Answer 11

I lived in Colombia for about 3 1/2 years, traveled, gave trainings (about auditing), translated (both directions) for a psychologist and for an MD, taught and carried on extended conversations in Spanish. I can tell and laugh at jokes in Spanish. I teach a class at church about once a month, besides visiting with a number of native Spanish speakers. I call myself fluent in Spanish, but sometimes I wonder. Even with all the experience I have, I occasionally have to ask for confirmation of a word, a sentence structure or the gender of a noun. I almost never ask for a translation; a clarification is sufficient.

Even though I identify myself as fluent, I am a long way from being a native speaker. It's a life long pursuit that I'll never achieve. It's a fun trip, though.

I guess my point is, don't understate your abilities. They're probably a lot better than you think. Many beginners on this forum would be considered advanced or fluent by most of the non-bilingual population of the US.

In November I'll be going to Brazil (unless there's a delay due to visa problems out of the Los Angeles consulate). I'm looking forward to trying on a new language. Portuguese is a Romance language, but it's markedly different from Spanish. Wish me luck.

• ¡Buena suerte! - LaloLoco Jul 24, 2011
• WHy not email me back - jeezzle Jul 24, 2011
• Good post and buena suerte! - billygoat Jul 25, 2011
• Cool! I just started with Portuguese myself. My old Spanish tutor speaks Portuguese as well, so my plan is to have her teach me Portuguese in Spanish. - rodneyp Jul 25, 2011
• Good luck,,,,, I am impressed,, especially with people having more skills in more than two languages..wow,, again, Good Luck,, I live in Colombia, and want to make that Brazil trip also... - gene Jul 25, 2011

Answer 12

I don't really need to post, as everything has already been said!

As regards learning and fun, I'd just like to say that I sometimes wonder about SD, when I get hooked into a thread that is all in English, takes me a while to read through, leeching precious time from my Spanish studies ...

2 things:

• All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

• Threads like this one do so much for one's confidence and motivation, I can't consider them a waste of time. Solidarity, people!

-¡Viva la solidaridad!

Answer 13

When I signed up here about a year ago, I listed myself as "intermediate".

Now that I have learned a whole lot in the last 12 months, I think I really am "intermediate"

It will be awhile before I repeat that mistake. I still repeat some "beginner-level" mistakes, especially if I'm a bit tired.

To paraphrase Stadt, the more I learn, the more I discover how much more there is to learn. It's like running a race where the finish line is receding faster than my running pace. Sigh...

Answer 14

I did that a few weeks back, too. I'm definitely not an intermediate, jaja.

It's a personal choice, and if you feel like you're not an intermediate, don't lie to yourself. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a beginner.

• Hear Hear! - galsally Jul 25, 2011

Answer 15

I´m reminded every day I´m a beginner.

• Well, I'm reminded just how much I'm below Billygoat's rattlesnake belly!! - territurtle Jul 25, 2011