You Have To Know When To Quit.

Question

I have been studying for about 2 years, 5 or more hours a week on the internet. My teacher gave me 10 sentences to do last night and I get 10 wrong. The imperfect subjunctive - may as well be nucular physics to me. He just gave me the answers and I am struggling to see the tense or why he used it or where it came from.

I tried. I reached a certain level and now I am done. The question is what to do with an extra 5 hours a week ?

The law of deminishing marginal returns has set in, and that is a true law and when you see it - move on to the next project no matter what the subject is.

• Take a real class. I have heard studying only on the internet is Very Difficult. - NancyGrace Mar 9, 2011
• Hola amigo, nucular physics should be spelled nuclear physics. ;-P - DJ_Huero Mar 9, 2011
• But, hey, if you're writing nucular, that means you're probably pronouncing the word like me and former President Bush do (NEW-kyew-ler) ... not a highly accepted pronunciation, as Mr. Bush discovered. - webdunce Mar 9, 2011
• Even my own family dislikes my pronunciation of that word, so I have no idea where I got it from. - webdunce Mar 9, 2011

Answer 1

Don't like it? Don't do it! Simple. Why bother?

I mean - really. You don't seem to have a pressing need to learn Spanish, and I don't get the impression that you find it enjoyable, nor motivating enough to dedicate more than 5 hours a week to it. Since you seem not to have a lot of time to spare, I indeed agree that you may be better off applying those 5 hours toward something you really enjoy.

• I agree. If you had a passion for it you would be doing more to expose yourself to seeing, hearing, etc. the language. Go to a class, get a buddy, rent movies..... - --Mariana-- Mar 9, 2011
• Well said!!! - webdunce Mar 9, 2011

Answer 2

Perhaps you should study nuclear physics.

• :-) - Gekkosan Mar 9, 2011
• It may amuse you, but I don't think clever (really, sarcastic) comments are necessary here, when someone is despairing. - NancyGrace Mar 9, 2011
• Personally, I found learning physics to be far easier than learning Spanish. It may be a better match to Roger's skill set and interests. - lorenzo9 Mar 9, 2011
• I agree! Some people's minds are stronger in certain areas, while others are spread rather evenly across the board. - LiveUnsheath Mar 9, 2011

Answer 3

I guess that I'm in the minority here, but I think that at the moment you are just demoralized. You thought you were "getting somewhere" but this last test made you feel like you were wasting your time.

Here's what I say.....just keep practicing. You will be able to be understood speaking Spanish even if you NEVER "get" the imperfect subjunctive. Native speakers use it wrong all the time. It's not that big of a deal.

As you get more experience speaking and hearing Spanish, certain ways of saying things will begin to sound "right" to you, and you'll incorporate them into your own speaking. It's a process. It happens slowly. You won't even be able to gague your own progress because it is incrimental.

Five hours a week is either alot of time, or not alot of time, depending on what your life is like. If you are a college student studying Spanish, it's not alot of time. If you have a job and a family and a full life, it IS alot of time to carve out of your day.

If you are being forced to learn Spanish, that's one thing, but if it is your own choice and goal, forget about this test and just keep on truckin'.

I know what I'm talking about. I took a test here and did very poorly on it, and I felt very, very demoralized. So I took a bit of a break in order to lick my wounds, investigate my priorities, and refuel the fire in my belly to learn Spanish. Perhaps that's all you need.

I wish you the very best in whatever you decide, but please don't let one (ultimately insignifcant) setback change the course of your desires.

• Very motivational, Cathy :) - Izanoni1 Mar 9, 2011
• Very understanding and empathetic Cathy :) - FELIZ77 Mar 9, 2011
• wow, we dont get the subjunctive wrong all the time, why are you saying that??? - Heidita Mar 9, 2011
• Hola, It's not what you think, it's actually an "expression". It means more like native speakers get it wrong "frequently", not in actuality, "all the time". Think "hyperbole." :) - NancyGrace Mar 9, 2011

Answer 4

It's all a matter of what you are passionate about. To me five hours a week is a very short amount of time to study a language, and I don't think it would be possible to retain much at this rate. I would recommend finding a hobby that is easier or that you were motivated enough to dedicate more time to.

• Golf takes more time a week, I'll give you that - but where do you find the time ? - RogerHH Mar 8, 2011
• I have just made it into part of my everyday life. It's my passion and I want to spend the rest of my life doing it. - pescador1 Mar 8, 2011
• I have been playing golf for years and I'm still horrible, but I enjoy it. Don't give up! - pescador1 Mar 8, 2011
• Visualize each shot before you step up to hit it; shorten your back swing a stare at the back of the ball and read Raymond Floyds The Element of Scoring - there isa copy for $1.52 on Amazon at the moment - RogerHH Mar 9, 2011
• I watch FoxSports en Vivo en espanol, y CNN Espanol un poco es dificil ! - RogerHH Mar 9, 2011

Answer 5

We all set our priorities.

I agree with pescador that 5 hrs/week isn't enough. It's not that I'm in a hurry, but learning language is more than memorizing a long list. It's about learning to think in a different way. It takes a sense of "living the language" which is best done by immersion, but can be accomplished by something less. But not as little as a few hours a week, in my opinion.

I certainly respect your decision.

Answer 6

Hey Roger, don't give up. The imperfect subjunctive is hard for me too. My last chapter was on that. Just to give you an idea, I had scored between 90% and 100% on every chapter test up until Chapter 7, which was on the imperfect subjunctive. I got a 61% on that chapter!!

But what I've learned is that the growth comes in waves. In between the waves we can feel stalled. You have come a really long way. Why not revisit your reasons why you are learning Spanish? Also, maybe you are burned out with your particular program. I like a lot of variety. Different programs explain things differently, and hearing all the various approaches helps things gel for me. Maybe you need a break from hard core academic language studies with such an emphasis on grammar. Maybe you should just mess around on this site for a while and have fun!

You are right about dimishing returns in general, but I feel that in learning a foreign language there is always something to learn to progress toward the goal of being "fluent," so it doesn't make sense to me to ever stop learning.

Edited to add: Do you have any real-life situations in which to use the Spanish you've learned so far? I volunteer once a week for a Latina support group where primarily Spanish is spoken. That really keeps me motivated to keep studying!

• Real life situation is a great idea. But having a spanish speaking girl friend and a wife could be harder to manage than the subjunctive - RogerHH Mar 8, 2011
• lol - Leatha Mar 8, 2011
• Yes it is, trust me in this!! - pacofinkler Mar 8, 2011
• Lol! - happyquilter Mar 9, 2011

Answer 7

I will plagiarize a phrase,I think its from Pesta actually. learning a new language is a journey ,not a destination, and I wholly agree with it. Now then , not to offend anyone. I will add a touch of my (very distant) U.S.M.C philosophy, never give up, never give in, never retreat.

• Wow, Paco, I didn't know you served! Semper Fi! (my father was USMC also --) Great philosophy. - NancyGrace Mar 8, 2011
• Give him my best regards, we are brothers forever! - pacofinkler Mar 8, 2011
• I'm honored to be so plagiarized. :) Now I feel less guilty for having plagiarized it myself. I don't remember where I originally found the idea, but it's spot-on. - pesta Mar 8, 2011
• Hoo Rah!!!!!! - Don_José Mar 9, 2011
• Thank you for your positive response Paco! If I had enough reputation I'd vote you up! - PBee Mar 9, 2011

Answer 8

Try golf. New set of clubs, shoes, knickers, green fees, driving range, putting greens, parking, lessons, and replacing all the balls you'll lose. Hang on to your bolsillo, amigo and resist throwing the whole thing into one of the hazards. Or model radio controlled model airplanes, (if you think failing a Spanish exam is disappointing, try cracking up a masterpiece that you spent 75 hours and $300.00 to build) or do the real thing, learn to fly and buy yourself a l puddle jumper airplane. Everything it needs has to be certified as airworthy and therefore costs about 20 times as much as an equivalent part for your car. Or buy a horse. Great to ride if you get past saddle sores and have anywhere to go and have a place to keep it and the tack. You'll soon be a regular at the feed store and know the phone # of the vet and the farrier find the feed store, the vet and the farrier. Hoy en diá, ocio es cada vez más caro.

Nutshell, I don't know of a hobby as inexpensive as hanging in here with Spanish Dict and the other free helps you can access on the net, but of course that won't include a a year of immersion in Spain or Mexico.

• poor baby, sounds like you need to put your feet up, turn on some soothing music and sip on something strong! - NancyGrace Mar 8, 2011
• Golf is easy. I started when I was 5 - but without 2 rounds a week the standard falls of quickly. Horeses - too expensive. Airplanes too tricky - dangerous and expensive. - RogerHH Mar 8, 2011

Answer 9

Hi, Roger,

I don't know what your circumstances are: for instance, I don't know if you were just taking a language for college credits -- if you had been fine all along but just got stumped at this point -- or many other reasons you have become discouraged.

I have a feeling you are not happy about the situation, though -- otherwise you would't have announced it publicly on this site.

The one thing I believe for sure is that your teacher should not have just given you the answers without explaining how the imperfect subjunctive works. It is very logical and specific, so if you didn't understand the principle, it would be easy to get all of them wrong.

You really do have to memorize at least 25 of the most commonly used verbs including the irregular ones. (It is difficult -- in spite of the line Rosetta Stone tries to feed you).

Maybe you just really need to take a short break. Come back to it at a later time, and I bet you will be surprised as to how much you really retained.

Best of luck in whatever you decide. You know you can always come back here to everyone's welcome.

• " if you didn't understand the principle, it would be easy to get all of them wrong." to be honest _ I have no bloody idea what the principle is" - RogerHH Mar 8, 2011
• We use the Past (Imperfect) Subjunctive in the dependent clause (following "que") when the main clause (Subject #1) is in the past tense [the Preterite, the Imperfect or the Conditional.] - RogerHH Mar 8, 2011
• Yes, Roger, I was calling that the principle! - NancyGrace Mar 9, 2011
• I went a looked it up. It wasn't an epiphany but perhaps close to one. - RogerHH Mar 9, 2011
• http://www.drlemon.com/Grammar/imp-subj.html - - RogerHH Mar 9, 2011
View 4 more commments >>

Answer 10

I am amazed that people don't think that 5 hours a week is a lot.

I don't drink beer 5 hours a week, I don't play football or tennis 5 hours a week, I don't watch television 5 hours a week, I don't read for 5 hours a week.

Do I have a shorter week than everybody else ?

• I spend more than 5 hours per day studying,listening to, and speaking Spanish. However, I am retired and live in a Spanish speaking country and currently only have a beginner level ability. - lorenzo9 Mar 9, 2011
• My response is too long for the comment section. I'll make a new post. - happyquilter Mar 9, 2011
• Lorenzo - that's the way to do it. - RogerHH Mar 9, 2011
• It's all relative, isn't it? I know lots of people who spent considerably more than 5 hours a week watching TV, or reading. Playing 18 holes golf certainly takes more than 5 hours, if you also count the time getting there, showering and socializing. - Gekkosan Mar 9, 2011
• Most of what I do as regular activities does consume more than 5 hours a week. And in any event, 5 hours a week is indeed too short a time to learn a language fully and effectively, unless you have photographic memory. - Gekkosan Mar 9, 2011

Answer 11

I am amazed that people don't think that 5 hours a week is a lot.

Unless someone has been cloning high-school kids (causing me to think that it's the same bunch day in and day out), I have the distinct impression that there are lots of kids who spend three or more hours per day pretty much every day of the week practicing basket ball.

Five hours may be a lot for some things (if you spent them taking showers, that would probably amount to three or four per day). For learning a language it's not a lot. It's more nearly the bare minimum if you want to make progress. There may be courses/books that suggest that a language can be learned in twenty days or in fifteen minutes per day but that's just hype.

Answer 12

To answer Roger's question about 5 hours a week:

When I took Spanish in college (1 yr) I was in class 5 hours a week plus did at least 5 more hours a week in homework, plus extra studying for tests. I felt it was very inefficient due to driving to/from class and the time wasted in class.

So this year I simply purchased the 2nd year Spanish curriculum at the bookstore, including the online workbook, and I've been studying at home. I am really enjoying self-study because it is extremely efficient. I'm doing it to learn, not get grades or credits, so I spend as much or little time as I need on each area. I probably only average 5 hours a week, and I'm progressing rapidly. I am on schedule to complete 2nd year Spanish this school year.

In addition, I did a two week spanish immersion class in Mexico, which was the best thing I ever did because that made me use what I had learned. I highly recommend it.

And now I am immersed a few hours once a week volunteering with a latina support group. I do social worker type activities, helping people find resources and even taking them to appointments and translating (!). I am very motivated to improve rapidly so I can help them better.

My question to Roger is - Why are you learning Spanish?

• I don't have a valid reason, after a weekend in Panama I thought I would try it for a bit. - RogerHH Mar 9, 2011
• I can see that the volunteering thing is brilliant - don't see much opportunity here - but I like the idea. - RogerHH Mar 9, 2011

Answer 13

Roger, if you want an injection of enthusiasm, click on this link to read answers to a poll asking how members use spanishdict.com. It is fun to read.

link text

Answer 14

One Language school here promotes itself like this:

"Learn English in 4 months - dominate it in 8 months"

At 5 hours a week that would be about 80 hours to 160 hours - NO WAY1

Another school has 3-hour classes 5 days a week - for full time university students and people in full time employment. They have a short exam every week and a longer one every month and homework on top of that. I am in awe of them.

• Me too, wow! - NancyGrace Mar 9, 2011
• I am in awe of the students of that second school. 15 hours per week just in class plus homework! Whew! - webdunce Mar 9, 2011

Answer 15

I have heard the contention that to master, or at least gain a reasonable level of proficiency in an endeavor requires about 10,000 hours of directed practice. I don't know whether I buy into this completely (although it does seem somewhat reasonable for some objectives), but assuming that this is indeed a reasonable figure, it seems that 5 hours a week for two years is not a tremendous amount of time to have spent on the subject. In fact, if you add it up, it only comes up to around 500 hours of total study. Looking at it another way, this amount of time corresponds to about 5% of the time that you would need to invest in order to become highly skilled at Spanish.

Taking Samdie's basketball analogy into account (and I do have some experience in this regard), 500 hours is not even enough time to develop a decent jump shot, let alone a proficient all around game.

I can say that I have probably spent somewhere between 3,000 and 4,500 hours on Spanish, and in my own estimation, my ability seems to coincide fairly well with the 10,000 hour contention. I think I am probably a little bit less than half-way to my goal of reasonable proficiency, or looking at it another way, I think that I probably come off as a little bit less than a half-wit to proficient Spanish speakers.

In any case, it would certainly be best to focus your time on an endeavor that you not only find worthwhile but also derive at least some sort of satisfaction or enjoyment in pursuing. Whatever you decide, best of luck in your endeavors.

• I'm not even up to where you are Iza :) - ian-hill Mar 9, 2011
• I spent over 4000 hours developing a site to teach English (my native language) and I am still learning things. - ian-hill Mar 9, 2011
• isn't it 10,00 hours to be an expert in something ? - RogerHH Mar 9, 2011
• http://www.squidoo.com/10000-hour-rule - RogerHH Mar 9, 2011
• Roger, the speed at which a person learns can vary considerably depending on the person's inate ability to learn languages, the time they give to learning it and the exposure to hearing the langauge spoken by natives - FELIZ77 Mar 9, 2011
View 2 more commments >>